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#1
09-25-2007, 03:51 PM
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Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
Live tournament. Round 2. This basically turned into a heads up situation, so I'll post it that way. Apologies for any oddities with formatting, but I'll make it as clear as possible. Although I think I know most of the answer, I'm interested in what might cross your mind at each stage and what you do. Pre-flop it's folded around to the villain. Our chip stacks are relatively even at about 8000, with villain outchipping me slightly. Only thing I've got on the villain is a puny raise he made that I reraised and he folded. Otherwise, not much. Seems solid. Blinds are 50/100.
Dealt to Hero: Ks, Qd Villain raises to 400 Hero (BB) calls Flop: Kc, 2c , Qc Hero bets 1200 Villain, after an exhale and pause, calls Turn: 2d Hero bets 1200 Villain calls 1200 River: 2s Hero is all-in Villain calls As always, comments appreciated. 
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#2
09-25-2007, 04:50 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
What are you hoping calls on the river that you beat? I check/call the river.
His call on the flop could mean K10, KJ, KA (bad), maybe Jc10x. The 2d gives AA the lead if AA concocts to play the hand so badly. Still, I bet more, because 1200 gives Villain odds to call and you are OOP, so if a club hits or an A, you're not going to like it. Bet the pot here and just committ yourself. If he has AA or A2, then so be it, I don't know what to tell you. You called preflop OOP for a reason, this was your reason, so you need to committ yourself on a non club, non A turn, IMO. Barry
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#3
09-25-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
Depending on where villain raised from, I'm awfully tempted to re-raise PF. I hate playing OOP against a PFR.
Why donk into villain on the flop? Given the line you took, the river bet makes no sense. Check/call. I can't see any hand that you beat calling you on the river (unless he is a total fish who can't fold something like JJ). Now had you played it slower on the flop or on the turn, the river bet could be for value against a lower pair. But given the way you played it, a lower pair should never show up against you by the river. Sherman
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#4
09-25-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
[ QUOTE ]
Depending on where villain raised from, I'm awfully tempted to re-raise PF. I hate playing OOP against a PFR. Why donk into villain on the flop? Given the line you took, the river bet makes no sense. Check/call. I can't see any hand that you beat calling you on the river (unless he is a total fish who can't fold something like JJ). Now had you played it slower on the flop or on the turn, the river bet could be for value against a lower pair. But given the way you played it, a lower pair should never show up against you by the river. Sherman [/ QUOTE ] His flop line isn't pleasant, but he will get called by QA, Ac, Jc10x; and he will get RRed by KA and AA. I can't fault him for betting the flop too badly. Do you agree that his turn bet needs to be much bigger given the action? Barry
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#5
09-25-2007, 05:08 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Depending on where villain raised from, I'm awfully tempted to re-raise PF. I hate playing OOP against a PFR. Why donk into villain on the flop? Given the line you took, the river bet makes no sense. Check/call. I can't see any hand that you beat calling you on the river (unless he is a total fish who can't fold something like JJ). Now had you played it slower on the flop or on the turn, the river bet could be for value against a lower pair. But given the way you played it, a lower pair should never show up against you by the river. Sherman [/ QUOTE ] His flop line isn't pleasant, but he will get called by QA, Ac, Jc10x; and he will get RRed by KA and AA. I can't fault him for betting the flop too badly. Do you agree that his turn bet needs to be much bigger given the action? Barry [/ QUOTE ] Not really. I like checking the turn and then check/calling the river. I bet the river for value if the river is a blank though.
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#6
09-25-2007, 05:16 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Depending on where villain raised from, I'm awfully tempted to re-raise PF. I hate playing OOP against a PFR. Why donk into villain on the flop? Given the line you took, the river bet makes no sense. Check/call. I can't see any hand that you beat calling you on the river (unless he is a total fish who can't fold something like JJ). Now had you played it slower on the flop or on the turn, the river bet could be for value against a lower pair. But given the way you played it, a lower pair should never show up against you by the river. Sherman [/ QUOTE ] His flop line isn't pleasant, but he will get called by QA, Ac, Jc10x; and he will get RRed by KA and AA. I can't fault him for betting the flop too badly. Do you agree that his turn bet needs to be much bigger given the action? Barry [/ QUOTE ] Not really. I like checking the turn and then check/calling the river. I bet the river for value if the river is a blank though. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmmmm - is it because if he RRs, you have the worst hand and are now committed? And that if you check, you can exercise pot control and not commit yourself to a club river? Or so you can check/raise AI? I mean, isn't our big concern here Ac / Jc and extracting value from that by leading the turn? Barry
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#7
09-25-2007, 05:32 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Depending on where villain raised from, I'm awfully tempted to re-raise PF. I hate playing OOP against a PFR. Why donk into villain on the flop? Given the line you took, the river bet makes no sense. Check/call. I can't see any hand that you beat calling you on the river (unless he is a total fish who can't fold something like JJ). Now had you played it slower on the flop or on the turn, the river bet could be for value against a lower pair. But given the way you played it, a lower pair should never show up against you by the river. Sherman [/ QUOTE ] His flop line isn't pleasant, but he will get called by QA, Ac, Jc10x; and he will get RRed by KA and AA. I can't fault him for betting the flop too badly. Do you agree that his turn bet needs to be much bigger given the action? Barry [/ QUOTE ] Not really. I like checking the turn and then check/calling the river. I bet the river for value if the river is a blank though. [/ QUOTE ] Hmmmmm - is it because if he RRs, you have the worst hand and are now committed? And that if you check, you can exercise pot control and not commit yourself to a club river? Or so you can check/raise AI? I mean, isn't our big concern here Ac / Jc and extracting value from that by leading the turn? Barry [/ QUOTE ] NM. I actually like betting the turn better. I thought the flop had c c h, not c c c. Sherman
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#8
09-25-2007, 05:32 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
[ QUOTE ]
I bet the river for value if the river is a blank though. [/ QUOTE ] I was thinking the 2 on the river could be looked at like it was a blank. As it really doesn't change any of the hands that are beating us.
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#9
09-25-2007, 05:02 PM
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Re: Stage thinking - two pair flop on suited board
I'm assuming that the reason you bet 1200 on the flop is because there is more than 2 of you to the flop making the pot bigger then it appears. After that I either raise more on the turn or I check/call. I hate giving a free card there since the Ac is a big part of villian's range.
As played a shove on the river seems good to me. I was thinking a value bet of 2500ish might be good too, but the only hand I see calling that we beat is something like AcQ so I don't know. Of course you are calling if villian shoves.
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