Jackpot drop vs. shuffle machines Poll

[Meraxes]

Which is better, assuming players are about the same?

[soah]

the cost of a jackpot drop is static. the value of seeing extra hands depends on your edge and the stakes you're playing...

[Meraxes]

Ah, these are the kind of factors I was hoping to discuss. The jackpot drop is static per hand, but the number of hands you win is somewhat dependant on playstyle. Lets say the stakes are in the 3/6-4/8 limit range. How many more hands do we see per hour with shuffle machines? I'm not sure off the top of my head.

[LasVegasMichael]

Auto shufflers, no question.

[steamboatin]

[ QUOTE ]
How many more hands do we see per hour with shuffle machines? I'm not sure off the top of my head.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have been told between five and seven more hands per down. It is noticeably faster.

I think the Jackpot drop is good for the game. I know others will disagree but when the jackpot is high, table game players play poker and they play any two that might flop a straight flush from any posistion.

[redfisher]

I think the BBJ issue is pretty regional. Here in Louisiana, there's no question you want the jackpot. If you can get a 100K+ BBJ going, the poker room is full of the fishiest players ever. The other side of that is that since your general Louisiana player has absolutely no clue, they don't change how they play. They just load up their wallets, show up, stay too long, and hope lightning strikes them.

[LasVegasMichael]

In general, I do not like jackpots, but they are a fact of life in most poker rooms in Vegas (the Big Boys excepted).

Autoshufflers, OTOH, are a deal breaker for me. I play short sessions due to my work/family, so I am eager to get out as many hands as possible in the 2-3 hours I am playing for maximum value.

I have clocked it a few times at my NL table, and have found that, with an average dealer, an autoshuffler adds about 4-7 hands per hour, which can make a difference.

[AngusThermopyle]

On a $1 drop, you gain $4 an hour by removing it.
With autoshufflers, your hourly rate should increase about 14%. (going from 36 to 41 hands per hour).

So, if your hourly win rate is $28, it is a push. More than that, then the autoshufflers will be a bigger factor. Less, go with removing the jackpot.

Note: does not take into account what each does to 'the action' at the table. Also, the jackpot removes ~$35 from the table per hour. The autoshuffler will remove 5 x (avg-drop + tip) from the table per hour.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
On a $1 drop, you gain $4 an hour by removing it.
With autoshufflers, your hourly rate should increase about 14%. (going from 36 to 41 hands per hour).

So, if your hourly win rate is $28, it is a push. More than that, then the autoshufflers will be a bigger factor. Less, go with removing the jackpot.

Note: does not take into account what each does to 'the action' at the table. Also, the jackpot removes ~$35 from the table per hour. The autoshuffler will remove 5 x (avg-drop + tip) from the table per hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your EV on the jackpot drop is generally neutral, unless there's some small administrative fee. Shufflers are unquestionably more important to earn.

[bav]

Jackpot is positive EV, at least sometimes, even ignoring psychological issues.

In Nevada the Gaming Commission demands the casino return 100% of the money to the players, since keeping any more would be an illegal rake; they don't rake the jackpot drop. That's the first required step.

And if the casino then returned all of the HHJ/BBJ money in the HHJ/BBJ awards, it'd be approximately neutral right there. But it can be positive...

All the Harrah's joints use the HHJ to fund their "freeroll" tourneys. They only put a fraction of the drop into the high-hand jackpots, and the rest is used to generate the freeroll prize pools. And since most of the tourists (and probably most of the regulars, for that matter) don't play the freerolls, for those folks who do it's solidly +EV.

For instance... Bally's $100K+ freeroll. All those folks who played at Bally's for a year as the HHJ excess prize pool grew funded it. Then there was a 3month qualifying period. Very +EV. Or Caesars $100K freeroll. Same thing--it was generated by the folks who've been playing cash games since they started the HHJ drop, but only folks who play enough THIS month qualify for it. If you never played cash games at Caesars until May, and then put in your 60 hours, your EV from the HHJ drop is probably +500%? Huge, anyway.