$100r wierd spot with KK

djk123 · #1 10-15-2007, 10:13 PM

utg is mikeymer and other dude is Premier. Thoughts on preflop? Betting the flop seems standard, but then all hell breaks loose. Is this an easy fold?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t150/t300
(Ante: t25)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t7150
UTG+1: t6081
MP1: t12525
MP2: t7595
MP3: t6450
CO: t15180
djk123: t15523
SB: t19797
BB: t3430

Pre-flop: (9 players) djk123 is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG raises to t800, 5 folds, djk123 calls t800 (pot was t1475), SB calls t650 (pot was t2275), BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t2925, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, djk123 bets t1800, SB raises to t5000, UTG raises all-in t6325, djk123

Bakes · #2 10-15-2007, 10:24 PM

rr preflop. do you really take flyers on hands here with a relatively tight utg raiser who has only 18bb to start the hand?

KneeCo · #3 10-15-2007, 11:10 PM

Because of mm's stack I'd usually make it like 2200-2500 pf (like 2k or even like 1800 or something against an unknown player in a worse field).

As played: Obv if SB only had 5800 to start the hand, it's a snap call but things being as they are it's tricky.

First off, the choice here is obviously between shoving and folding, I can't imagine calling is ever a good idea.

Second, although the line looks really strong, we have to keep in mind that we didn't show strength pf and the push comes after the SB's raise, so SB can be very often semi-bluffing here. There may even be times where he folds on the flop to a push from Hero, though these would be the exceptions, given the additional 6k in the pot and the presence of the short stack yet to act certainly greatly decreases bluff frequency.

I think MMer has a range like 22+,AcJc+ -- I don't think we should credit it him like A6c, 76, KcJc or A2 since he's opening that stack UTG (we also have to look at the C/R with 2psb behind, wouldn't he have led more often w/ like AA or 66 type stuff? or was he counting on djk to fire 100% of the time because he's djk).

Premier's range is trickier here, it includes stuff like A2,67 but probably not QQ+. If we can put 67 in there, how about 56? I don't think it's unreasonable, nor is 88-QQ given that all he's seen is a 3x pf and a position bet from an aggro player on a draw-heavy the flop.

I don't like it, but given how under repped our hand is (a term I actually often hate but I think applies here), I think I might shove here and expect to have about 33% equity for the main pot and 40% for the sidepot if called based on some ranges I've played with.

I am also very open to the possibility that I'm totally FOS here.

ZJ123 · #4 10-15-2007, 11:31 PM

ur djk, u never have a hand, plz reraise preflop. As played fold i guess.

ASPoker8 · #5 10-15-2007, 11:48 PM

djk with your image i see no reason not to 3bet preflop

Also, as much as we preach that 3betting UTG raisers is insanely strong, people suck at poker. I've seen superstars 3bet UTG with laughable ranges a ton recently. For example Round42 3betting an UTG raise late with 22 and being forced to call the ensuing shove and suck out on AA.

/rant

JSchnett · #6 10-16-2007, 12:08 AM

pretty much what everybody else said. With your image I'd 3bet here almost everytime. I like a call more if he was from MP.

As played I would fold.

JSchnett · #7 10-16-2007, 12:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, as much as we preach that 3betting UTG raisers is insanely strong, people suck at poker. I've seen superstars 3bet UTG with laughable ranges a ton recently. For example Round42 3betting an UTG raise late with 22 and being forced to call the ensuing shove and suck out on AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

raising utg is the new thing and 3betting a utg raise is the newest thing.

Bond18 · #8 10-16-2007, 05:03 AM

"raising utg is the new thing and 3betting a utg raise is the newest thing. "

LOL, so true, 3 bet is v good here esp with djk's image and esp in 100r.

Kneeco makes a decent arguement, but i respect the opinion of the other guys who said fold. IDK, post flop is very hard here, i'll wait to see what else people say and if they can come up with something super convincing.

In all honesty, i don't hate calling (reshoving i guess) or folding. I don't know which is better.

djk123 · #9 10-16-2007, 11:49 AM

Yea i suppose rr preflop would be better. I called because I knew mikey was pretty tight, and i havn't played with him much lately. so i doubt he would suspect me of 3 betting him light or something.

getballed · #10 10-16-2007, 12:07 PM

RR PF.

Flop seems tough here. Ypu didnt show any strength by just flatting it here. I dont know UTG's range here but when will he open with 33-55 for 2.8bbs?

QQ-AA/AKc can easily CR this flop since no one really showed strength PF