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  #21  
Old 10-14-2007, 07:53 PM
vhawk01 vhawk01 is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

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if someone tells me that they believe the bible is factual and that a guy named Noah actually built a boat big enough to house two of every animal to escape a flood, then I know that they are easily manipulated and naive.



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There's evidence that something like this flood actually happened. Only the entire known world was not flooded. Just a major portion of it. Only essential animals were saved.
After the story is told after many generations, there are embellishments. Try telling a story to a line of ten people. Each retelling the story to the next person. Listen to what the tenth person says.

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There is evidence of a flood where "only essential animals were saved?" What does that even mean?
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  #22  
Old 10-14-2007, 07:54 PM
DblBarrelJ DblBarrelJ is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

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I'd prefer to live in a country where 98% of the people could state that Pol Pot was evil. Wasn't that long ago that we could.

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The state of education in the US being what it is, my guess is that you live in a country where the majority of people don't know who Pol Pot was.

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DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!
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  #23  
Old 10-14-2007, 08:00 PM
vhawk01 vhawk01 is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

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The simple truth is that people who are willing to denounce logical reasoning in favor of faith are more likely to accept genocide than people who are skeptical of religion.

If this is the truth then how do you explain Lenin's, Stalin's, Pol Pot's and Mao Tse Tung's policies?

It seems that atheism comes in as many variants as does religion (from a thinking Catholic's perspective):

http://www.carl-olson.com/articles/atheism_envoy.html

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They all denounced logical reasoning in favor of faith. Stalin is just about a perfect example of this.
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  #24  
Old 10-14-2007, 09:33 PM
RustedCorpse RustedCorpse is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??




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There's evidence that something like this flood actually happened. Only the entire known world was not flooded. Just a major portion of it. Only essential animals were saved.
After the story is told after many generations, there are embellishments. Try telling a story to a line of ten people. Each retelling the story to the next person. Listen to what the tenth person says.

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Yea that works with this one story. The problem being is religious dogma is given this magic wand to pick and choose. But sorry, it's either a) written by man as a fairy tale combination of events or b) THE WORD OF GOD and perfect in its entirety.

If it's the former, ok, stop using it as a moral guideline, it's time to revise.

If it's the latter, well Yahweh is a pretty jacked up dude not fit of worship.
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  #25  
Old 10-14-2007, 09:34 PM
RustedCorpse RustedCorpse is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

Disclaimer: My personal bias is that Hitler wasn’t an atheist, as I explain below.

One of the reasons this argument is so important is because it once again shows a pick and choose mentality for theists. Redundant logic of “Hitler couldn’t be Christian because he did all those horrible acts, therefore he’s an atheist” shows the ability of Theists to detach themselves from anyone with a bad reputation. There is no “member card” for faith, so they can pick and choose after the fact.

Hitler believed in the supernatural, this is a pretty solid statement, which implies that he wasn’t an atheist. And while it shouldn’t be damning of Christianity directly, it should be noted as a severe disillusionment with reality. I’m sorry but if there is someone leading a nation that believes in the equivalent of “magic” a constituent should be able to point and say “There is no evidence to support your claims… “And Hitler provides a perfect example of what happens when you don’t question dogma.

Why does it get brought up? Because theists love to use some of his atheist remarks as testimonies to what happens “without a moral compass”. Atheist tend to look at his Christian statements and say “Dogma= obedience=malleability”


The moral of the story is that [censored] up people do [censored] up [censored]. The problem being that people who subscribe to dogmas are more likely to be manipulated. A group mentality is common in humans; we want safety in numbers, so if we’re not critical of any establishment we risk blind obedience.
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  #26  
Old 10-14-2007, 11:29 PM
jogsxyz jogsxyz is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

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There is evidence of a flood where "only essential animals were saved?" What does that even mean?

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Saw it either on the History Channel or Discovery. Saved
mostly farm animals. Unlikely the flood lasted 40 days.
More like one or two weeks.
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  #27  
Old 10-14-2007, 11:54 PM
Hopey Hopey is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

There is evidence of a flood where "only essential animals were saved?" What does that even mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

Saw it either on the History Channel or Discovery. Saved
mostly farm animals. Unlikely the flood lasted 40 days.
More like one or two weeks.

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I'm sure there have been plenty of floods in the Middle East over the last 2000-3000 years. I'm also certain that people got in boats to save themselves and their families (and maybe even some of their livestock). The problem is that the average fundamentalist christian doesn't realize this is where the story comes from -- they believe that the WHOLE WORLD was flooded BY GOD, and that Noah and his family plus two of EVERY animal were all that were saved.

These are the people that Lebowski is referring to.
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  #28  
Old 10-15-2007, 12:03 AM
SNOWBALL SNOWBALL is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

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The focus should be on WHY he did what he did.

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I couldn't give 2 [censored] about why he did what he did. There will always be people like hitler. The critical thing is having a poltical environment where people are fearful, angry, obedient, confused, etc. etc.
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2007, 10:08 AM
tpir tpir is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

Well, it doesn't LDO. Problem is, the people who trot this out as an argument for/against whatever are not smart enough to realize why it's a bad argument in the first place. So reasonable people have to keep hearing it all the time, that is the only reason I can see why it "matters".
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  #30  
Old 10-15-2007, 03:12 PM
ZeeJustin ZeeJustin is offline
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Default Re: Why does it matter if Hitler was atheist/Christian...??

A) Hitler was probably the second most important/influential human being to ever exist (behind Jesus), so everything about his life is pretty damn important. We have so much that we can still learn from this man (almost entirely from using him as a bad example of course).

B) God was crucial to his plan. There is no way he could have gotten all of Germany (and more) on his side without being able to say that Aryans were chosen by God. The idea of God was a crucial piece in the puzzle that led to 50 million deaths.
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