when do you allow your "internal warning" system take over???

[Gary Stevenson]

[ QUOTE ]
villain is bamboo6386 - a 22/13 unimaginative straightforward TAG. His cr size (BIG) w/ a player behind him SCREAMED strength. Obviously I still called w/ the intenion to trap HIM. But then on the turn, he bet hard and w/o any thought (instaneously)... my internal alarm, hundreds of thousands of hands played, to my inner core, SCREAMED that he has me beat. but of course I didn't listen! does anyone EVER listen to their internal mechanism here - or do we always say "f*ck it, I has a set, and I ain't folding!"

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $990.00
BB: $2,220.00
UTG: $1,553.00
Hero (MP): $1,020.00
CO: $358.75
BTN: $1,102.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $35.00</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $30.00, BB calls $25.00

Flop: ($105) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $75.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $215.00</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $140.00

Turn: ($535) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $535.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $770.00</font>,

[/ QUOTE ]

how is that a "BIG" c/r? it's not even 3x your bet. anyway, it's extremely unlikely for you to have a straight here so he can easily still think his 2pr is good and is value betting a worse hand so i'd still get it in with 33.

to your more general question, i'm with chirs- i probably make a few folds here and there that ppl wouldn't agree with bc of a "feeling" or "internal wanring" like you suggested. i think it's fine to make these kinds of folds once in a while, dont think it's too smart to make it a habit though

[Irish Mafia]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
villain is bamboo6386 - a 22/13 unimaginative straightforward TAG. His cr size (BIG) w/ a player behind him SCREAMED strength. Obviously I still called w/ the intenion to trap HIM. But then on the turn, he bet hard and w/o any thought (instaneously)... my internal alarm, hundreds of thousands of hands played, to my inner core, SCREAMED that he has me beat. but of course I didn't listen! does anyone EVER listen to their internal mechanism here - or do we always say "f*ck it, I has a set, and I ain't folding!"

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $990.00
BB: $2,220.00
UTG: $1,553.00
Hero (MP): $1,020.00
CO: $358.75
BTN: $1,102.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $35.00</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $30.00, BB calls $25.00

Flop: ($105) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $75.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $215.00</font>, BB folds, Hero calls $140.00

Turn: ($535) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $535.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $770.00</font>,

[/ QUOTE ]

how is that a "BIG" c/r? it's not even 3x your bet. anyway, it's extremely unlikely for you to have a straight here so he can easily still think his 2pr is good and is value betting a worse hand so i'd still get it in with 33.

to your more general question, i'm with chirs- i probably make a few folds here and there that ppl wouldn't agree with bc of a "feeling" or "internal wanring" like you suggested. i think it's fine to make these kinds of folds once in a while, dont think it's too smart to make it a habit though

[/ QUOTE ]

Certain things - thru game-flow, etc. effect the way we view things. No - raising to 215 after a bet of $75 is not by definition a "BIG" raise. But in my experience w/ this player, when we were heads up, and the pot was $80, and I cbet $60 into the pot, he would cr me to $160. Obviously I didn't state this - but it skewed my opinion of "BIG".

But again, I posted the hand in attempt to open up discussion on listening to your subconscious (or "internal" system as I half-jokingly described it). Its pretty clear to most rational-thinking poker players that folding a set of 3's on this board is pretty silly in a vacuum. But it was other factors: the size of his cr; the size of his turn bet; the speed of his turn bet (literally instaneous - which in some situations is a bluff; but in others is a monster, from players who "are gonna make you pay big to draw" etc.) Additionally, just from a game-flow perspective (which I obviously can't include in any meaningful way in a post) - his actions said to me "I got a big hand, and I want to play a big post as quickly as possible". Its hard for me to describe this in any tangible way - but from teh way we had tangled in previous pots (timing, bet-sizing, etc., etc.,) I felt he was strong.

Of course as I mentioned, I told my subconscious to "shut the [censored] up, I have a set idiot!" I'm one who practically NEVER folds a set - i mean, i'm a calling station at heart! - but if there was ever a time, i think this may have been it. I posted it to see if others had these "feelings" - that you can't necessarily describe in explicit terms - that allowed them to make monster folds or hero calls.



fwif (NOT to justify my "internal" system) - villain had 555.

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]
Its hard for me to describe this in any tangible way - but from teh way we had tangled in previous pots (timing, bet-sizing, etc., etc.,) I felt he was strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you ignoring the fact that he will play A5s and perhaps A3s the exact same way?

[ginko]

Listen to your "internal warning system" if it is correct over 50% of the time.

Otherwise just keep calling down until that % is raised and you feel confident enough to fold.

[Irish Mafia]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its hard for me to describe this in any tangible way - but from teh way we had tangled in previous pots (timing, bet-sizing, etc., etc.,) I felt he was strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you ignoring the fact that he will play A5s and perhaps A3s the exact same way?

[/ QUOTE ]

For the love of god - i'm not. Have you listened to anything I've said? I didn't ignore it during the hand - I shoved - and i'm not ignoring it now. I'm actually smart enough to not fold sets in spots like this, ya know by convincing myself that he has A-5, or the ONLY other conceivable hand a straightforward TAG would play this way. I was trying to start a conversation about trusting your subconscious IN GENERAL.

and fwif, i don't think A5s turbo-bets this turn for full pot. He'd probably at least take a second or two to assess the situation, and wonder if he could actually be beat after my call of the CR - but thats beside the point.

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its hard for me to describe this in any tangible way - but from teh way we had tangled in previous pots (timing, bet-sizing, etc., etc.,) I felt he was strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you ignoring the fact that he will play A5s and perhaps A3s the exact same way?

[/ QUOTE ]

For the love of god - i'm not. Have you listened to anything I've said? I didn't ignore it during the hand - I shoved - and i'm not ignoring it now. I'm actually smart enough to not fold sets in spots like this, ya know by convincing myself that he has A-5, or the ONLY other conceivable hand a straightforward TAG would play this way. I was trying to start a conversation about trusting your subconscious IN GENERAL.

and fwif, i don't think A5s turbo-bets this turn for full pot. He'd probably at least take a second or two to assess the situation, and wonder if he could actually be beat after my call of the CR - but thats beside the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said in your post before this you think that you maybe should have folded, which is it?

Regardless what your intentions were, using this hand as an example was not a good idea if you wanted any serious discussion on your theory.

Also I don't see why A5 wouldn't full pot the turn if 555 does. What does the turn change? The same hands that now beat A5 beat 55 as well.

[Jay Riall]

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[ QUOTE ]
if by "internal warning system" you mean a "feeling" that can not be empirically proven, meaning its not about the board or his stats or even betsizing/timing, i really wonder why anyone that plays poker seriously and makes money at it _has_ something like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

idiotic post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree

[BalugaWhale]

sup A5/54

[Requin]

I listen when it says call and I tell it to stfu when it says fold.

[holdem2000]

Personally I think I should listen to myself slightly more often in similar spots, but this is going to vary from individual to individual perhaps more than any other feature of playing style (based on a lot of factors, especially how good your mind is at figuring these things out).

If you really want to know start keeping a log of every time you don't listen to a feeling like this and eventually you'll have enough results to figure out if you should be listening to it more/less (though unless you're calling every time you get this feeling your records may be biased).