Let's Practice PF (Expanded PF Range and Analysis)

[JerBear77]

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the looser/more passive the table the more inclined I am to limp this from early position. I say this because these folks will often coldcall solid hands that beat us. KJ, AJ, and the like are very common. I'm all for playing QJs from EP overall, though.

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To expand..
If there is alot of cold calling happening, then im inclined to raise it so i can have a juiced pot with a great hand to make a big pot with.

OTOH, if i have alot of TAGs behind me that are raising their position, then i might be inclined to fold it here just to avoid being in a brutal spot with strong players behind me. AQ, AJ, KQ are all raising hands w/ position by strong players. Mix this in with a couple of Loose guys that are calling 2 cold behind them and it really becomes tricky if you hit a TP hand. This really becomes dependent on the quality that is behind you....in front of you is not really an issue.

[RemyXO]

<ul type="square">[*]It's a freakin group THREE hand!
... And easily dominated. [*]It wasn't raised before me
You only had one guy before you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [*]I am comfortable with my postflop play vs these opponents.
Which is somewhat negated by being out of position for the rest of the hand[*]It seemed like a raise or fold hand.
QJs, JTs play wonderfully in multiway pots. It's a raise/fold/limp hand un EP. Purely depending on table conditions. [*]I didn't want to fold it .
Again, table conditions and people behind you - is there a lot of raising preflop? Do you have rocks or maniacs to act? Folding may be just fine.[*]It looked pretty and connected and color coordinated.
LOL [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img][*]These are low stakes so I can comfortably practice very major changes to my game and not don't flip out practicing at the normal level.
Raising QJs in EP is a major change? [*]I wanted more bets in my stack.
The most bets you'll get is when your QJs hits the board in a multiway pot.[/list]
Playing the rest of the hand aggressively is g00t!

[KingOtter]

Ahh, the lovely QJs is the topic of discussion again.

I'm still gonna advocate that QJs is primarily a late-position limping hand, during which you primarily want lots of others in order to make a nice draw and drag a big pot with it.

I don't mind the raise from early position in order to pre-isolate the loose callers... people more likely to have J-rag, and Q-rag than AK, AQ, etc... but you gotta know the people behind you, and be able to get away from it fairly easily if a tight player pushes back.

Reasons against raising early:
- No showdown value (weak high-card value)
- Easily dominated by non-raising but calling hands (KJ, KQ)
- Out of position (which combined with easily dominated is eek)


But like I said, if you have a handle on the table I don't mind it. But Isss needs goods readssss precioussss.

[Montrealcorp]

I limp with QJs from EP, because

- I want customers who pay my flush or straight off

- If I raise, only dominating hands (AQ, AJ, KQ) will coldcall, the ones I'm behind against (QQ+, AK) will 3bang me

-I don't want this HU, b/c I have no SD value and no TP potential due to lacking hi-card strength

IMO QJs is the example of a hand that plays best multiway.

AMEN..

slightly another point: if u have weak players behind u,u want them to call,if u raise they might get scared and wont call a raise

[Befolder]

Grunch:

PF is a fold or limp for me, depending on the table dynamic I guess, but raising doesn't suck at the right table either simply because we'll get a lot of better hands to fold behind

The rest of the hand seems played flawlessly. I can only assume a better Q just called you down, but now that player is identified as passive and you can adjust appropriately later.

[Guitierez]

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I'm still gonna advocate that QJs is primarily a late-position limping hand, during which you primarily want lots of others in order to make a nice draw and drag a big pot with it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's exactly the opposite: limp from EP, raise from LP after several limpers (as well as first in).

The risk of getting coldcalled and driving out customers is highly reduced, you may buy the button, and most importantly, you bloat the pot to have the odds on later streets to chase gutshots and BDFDs and your opponents are more inclined to stay when you hit a flop of your favor.

Because of its flush potential, your hand plays well in a large pot. SSHE, p69

[bravos1]

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- If I raise, only dominating hands (AQ, AJ, KQ) will coldcall, the ones I'm behind against (QQ+, AK) will 3bang me

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This is not true! DUCY? How many times do you get cracked by someone cold calling w/ QT or JT? Happens all the friggin time!

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-I don't want this HU, b/c I have no SD value and no TP potential due to lacking hi-card strength

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What??? QJs plays fine HU, but you need to qualify this. Playing HU vs LP is different than playing vs BB. Do you raise this if folded to you in the hi-jack? CO? Button? SB? In BB when SB completes and it the only other opponent? The answer should be the same (YES!) to all of them.

What if it is 4 limpers to you on the button?
4 limpers to you and you have this in the SB? BB?
These should also be raises.

Raising is fine, limping is fine, folding is probably bad at this table... so I would rank as following:

limp~raise&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;fold

The only thing that is against us is that we are first to act and will potentially blow out people we want in the hand.

Just remember.... just because we raised PF does not mean we always need to bet the flop, or even play our hand past the flop.

[NIX]

If the table is loose/passive preflop, I prefer a limp from UTG+1 rather than a raise, but whatever. I imagine it's pretty close between getting a lot of people into the pot cheaply for a big pot or getting a few people in for two bets for a big pot that you may be able to chase out later. Rest of the hand is standard.

[aK13]

Bravos covered everything I was going to say -- at a loose/passive table we can raise preflop if we expect calls since they will call with tons of hands we play well against and theres preflop value to be had.

Limp if people will play these hands for 1 but not 2 bets, or if you are unsure of table conditions, or if you think playing this postflop will be difficult.

[Zeldark]

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Raising QJs in EP is a major change?

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Yuppers. I've put a lot of effort lately into tilt control, spotting when to slow down but still pushing the small postflop edges, etc. Evaluating my game recently I noticed that my PF game could use some advancing. I'm significantly widening my range compared to what it was before. QJs is just an example, but I thought it was a good one, obviously. These extra hands played brings us to bravos' quote.

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Just remember.... just because we raised PF does not mean we always need to bet the flop, or even play our hand past the flop.

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On the other hand, it is likely better to have a PF range that needs expanding, as opposed to a constantly spewing PF range that needs contracting.

And good job catching the humor in my list [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]