I don't even know, just explain this to me?

[PantsOnFire]

Personally, I only like re-re-steals against someone who is a shorter stack than me, is not pot committed and I have a solid image.

The other problem is he has 30,000 of his children out there and is getting better than 2:1 calling odds and will not be broke in case he loses. He also might suspect you would have raised more with a hand of 66-JJ so he might figure most of your range is two higher cards than 4 with a slight chance of a premium pair.

Basically, both of you were playing a game of chicken and now somebody is going to get run over.

[paddymcg21]

Lol no newbie fishy thats not what im saying at all. Maybe you can only fathom abc poker but when someone comes in for a re raise that is 5 times ur original raise alarm bells shud b ringing. There's no way hes doing this with a hand he wants u to stick round with. If I have AA or KK and someone in the CO raises to 6k ill make it between 14 and 20k to entice them into calling. Yes ur right about position but I thought u were being silly and implying that position matters in an all in showdown pre flop. I think this shove is on the verge of brilliance personally and I still cant figure out how villain found the balls to call with 44. OP did you win this pot? Villain deserves to fry for that loose loose call.

[FishyMcFish]

You think this shove is one the verge of brilliance?

I think that sums it up.

[Sherman]

OP,

I don't know what the buy-in is for the FTP 18K gtd. Please inform.

That being said, I have only made the play you did here a few times ever. Everytime the person behind me had been re-stealing a lot. If this villain has not been re-stealing a lot, you should just fold to his re-raise. If he has, your shove has merit. I don't know if it is good because I wasn't there are moves like this are very very read dependent. But it definitally has merit.

Again, for this move to be good, villain has had to have shown you that he will re-steal with a wide range. I think you are deep enough to have FE if his range is wide enough.

Surprised to see that he called with 44. He must of "known" you didn't have a pair. NH.

Sherman

edit: spelling.

[NHFunkii]

this is a pretty awful shove, he's getting great odds since he reraised so large. in fact, he needs 32% equity to have a profitable call. what a coincidence!

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

410,952,960 games 0.125 secs 3,287,623,680 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.278% 67.04% 00.24% 275510928 971460.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 32.722% 32.49% 00.24% 133499112 971460.00 { 44 }


---

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a pretty awful shove, he's getting great odds since he reraised so large. in fact, he needs 32% equity to have a profitable call. what a coincidence!

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

410,952,960 games 0.125 secs 3,287,623,680 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.278% 67.04% 00.24% 275510928 971460.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 32.722% 32.49% 00.24% 133499112 971460.00 { 44 }


---

[/ QUOTE ]

Math always wins.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t1200/t2400
(Ante: t300)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t58164
UTG+1: t65874
MP1: t63248
MP2: t13704
MP3: t28670
Hero: t88701
Button: t133227
SB: t77352
BB: t71060

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
5 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t6200</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to t29200</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in t88401</font>, Button calls t59201 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t123901)</font>.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you feel he is raising you light, you have other options. If you call the raise, you get to act first on the flop. You could pull a stop and go like play (ie push any flop) that Raymer advocates from the blinds with a shorter stack.

His bet of 29,000 is almost exactly 1/3rd of your stack. When someone raises 1/3rd of your stack preflop, they are guaranteeing themselves 2:1 pot odds if you push all in prelop. You have little to no fold equity preflop.

[BlueEcho]

Very interesting counter to villian's obvious plan of setting himself up to call a shove PF. And When I say "obvious" it was only because NHFunkii pointed it out, lol.

[draw2aflush]

bad time to resteal because villians raise is too big to ever fold he is getting way to good a price to fold.

[DLizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a pretty awful shove, he's getting great odds since he reraised so large. in fact, he needs 32% equity to have a profitable call. what a coincidence!

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

410,952,960 games 0.125 secs 3,287,623,680 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.278% 67.04% 00.24% 275510928 971460.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 32.722% 32.49% 00.24% 133499112 971460.00 { 44 }


---

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what is blowing my mind, seems like in tournaments you can justify almost any call. Yes look at the math but I can't help but think, wtf is he doing calling a 4bet shove with 44 for a pot that will most likely determine the winner of the tournament. Donkey thinking on my part maybe? Anyway, more thoughts on this: he obviously raised this amount to justify calling a shove, and to send me the message that he is calling so I shouldn't push. So he's sending me this message then calling anyway, I dunno just seems like a decent spot to push because he's going to make the mistake of folding often imo, it was very obvious to me he didn't have a hand. Also, I think a lot of people fold here, even though the math says call, which is why I don't think my push is bad. If our opponents play perfectly then I agree my push is terrible, but they don't. Not entirely sure on my logic on this whole thing, comments?

Couple more points:

-I lost the hand
-the buy in was $75