TPTK against all in on flop

[ragip]

I called, and he showed 88 for a set and won. One question, the general consensus (except for tojx) seems to be to reraise preflop. When we are out of position, how does this help? After reraising the first raise (preflop, to .80), Button is either calling or pushing. Against a push it's a coin flip at best. If he calls and I don't hit, most hands are going to call or raise my continuation bet, putting me in a difficult position (I'm thinking a flop that didn't hit AK will likely have only a single overcard to 88+.) Is it always better to reraise a hand like this preflop, regardless of position?

[Waingro]

If you think your villains are halfway decent I think you can fold preflop. But as you stated in the op this is not the case. A button miniraise is basically top 40% and sb is someone you really you want to get it heads-up with in postion. Raise to 3$ to convince the rest to fold. We are raising for value and for isolation here.

[PocketElevens]

[ QUOTE ]
I call here.

If this was i higher limit I would fold. I just think that this move can be done with too many hands at 10NL.

He might have a set but so be it.

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[tojx]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it always better to reraise a hand like this preflop, regardless of position?

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From what I have learned position is one of the parameters that define whether a reraise makes sense. There are other parameters like your card strengths and the goal that you want to achieve by raising (limiting the number of players for example).
As for your hand strength: it is rather relative to the other players. If you know that the initial raiser is raising very often, you can put him on a wider range and your AK is presumably most of the time ahead of his hand. In such a case a reraise OOP would make sense. However having an initial raiser where you don't know if he's playing very loose and also another call, and you're also OOP I would play this hand conservatively on the flop and work my way from there.

[Hottentott]

[ QUOTE ]
push preflop (or at least 4bet)

and call the push on the flop

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Could you please elaborate abit further?

[Waingro]

I don´t think we should get too hung up on wether AK is a good hand to play oop vs a raise and a re-raise (it isn´t, just dump it).

In this particular instance we have a couple of players who are looking for a cheap flop, with or without a good drawing hand, plus a donator in the sb that we really, really would like to get it heads-up with. We are also IN POSITION vs sb so only good things can come if we 4bet this to 3$.

Postflop isn´t that interesting, no way you can get away from that hand for that price.

[allaboutmyfetti]

[ QUOTE ]
push preflop (or at least 4bet)

and call the push on the flop

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db - i'm usually getting out of the way with AK when there's a raise & a re-raise in front of me (unless I have reads to tell me otherwise), is this a standard 100bb pushing situation?!

[ymu]

Read dependent. A minraise often means a mid pp or a slowplayed AA, and a pot-sized reraise on a flop like that often means a set that wants to protect itself on a drawy board and knows that AK is coming along. With deeper stacks I think you could find a fold, but not here, unfortunately. Call and growl at SB for making the pot so large preflop.

I wouldn't usually reraise AK preflop OOP but in this case it might be worth it, if SB is a donkey and has been overplaying weak hands preflop. If button likes to minraise mid pps, a substantial reraise denies him the odds to hit his set and may fold him out preflop (should fold him out, if he knows what he's doing), especially if he thinks you are solid, and isolates SB.

[Dan Bitel]

A few people have asked about why I would 4bet preflop.

The reasons here are that we DO have reads. We are told that SB plays every hand for a raise. In other words, our AK is huge here (esp at 10NL). All the button has done is just minraised OTB, so he's not showing much strength, so looks like I'm WA of my opponents' ranges with a hand that even if called has very good equity. So looks like a good spot to raise/push.

If the SB was a tighter player and/or the button makes a real raise, ofc the whole hand is different. I might just fold preflop. Or if we get into big metagame, maybe button is stealing a lot and SB is re-stealing a lot, so we can push AK easily....but thats all for another time. Basically, normally with AK vs a PS raise and a PS reraise, I'll fold AK, but as we have a read here, I'm pushing/4betting

[pernavoi]

[ QUOTE ]
Read dependent. A minraise often means a mid pp or a slowplayed AA, and a pot-sized reraise on a flop like that often means a set that wants to protect itself on a drawy board and knows that AK is coming along. With deeper stacks I think you could find a fold, but not here, unfortunately. Call and growl at SB for making the pot so large preflop.

I wouldn't usually reraise AK preflop OOP but in this case it might be worth it, if SB is a donkey and has been overplaying weak hands preflop. If button likes to minraise mid pps, a substantial reraise denies him the odds to hit his set and may fold him out preflop (should fold him out, if he knows what he's doing), especially if he thinks you are solid, and isolates SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more. That was about what I was thinking when I posted my first reply to this. Mini raise preflop is most of the time pocket pair either mid or very big. And push after that means only hand that isn't ahead you is other AK. And pp is way more common holding for given action.