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  #1  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:13 PM
JanelleBB7 JanelleBB7 is offline
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Default Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $33.85
UTG+1: $10
MP1: $55.80
MP2: $40.85
MP3: $33.70
Janellebb7: $45.45
Button: $7.20
SB: $25.75
BB: $24

Pre-flop: (9 players) Janellebb7 is CO with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $1.1</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Janellebb7 calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($7.95, 7 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 bets $4</font>, Janellebb7 calls,

Do you like my call here?

3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises all-in $8.9</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Janellebb7

Call or Push?
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:18 PM
garcia1000 garcia1000 is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

Fold preflop

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: 3 8 6 ($7.95, 7 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets $4, Janellebb7 calls,

Do you like my call here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, fold

[ QUOTE ]
3 folds, UTG+1 raises all-in $8.9, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Janellebb7

Call or Push?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:52 AM
sondring sondring is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

garcia speaks the troof.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:22 AM
praios praios is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

fold preflop call flop
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:18 AM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

disagree: I think preflop is fine in position and you should clearly call the first flop bet. you have 8 nut outs, an overpair, backdoor hearts, good pot odds, and no reason to expect a check raise. Pushing or calling the second time is close: MP2 probably has just a draw so you could build a side pot against him.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2007, 03:34 AM
garcia1000 garcia1000 is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

Those are good points Roundtower, obv if you don't expect a check-raise you have direct odds to call the flop bet. I think second time around it's a clear call. Could you explain why you'd want to push? It looks to me that pushing is unwise against MP2's range (2P, set, OESD, wrap).

I would neve call a raise with that hand preflop in position, although I have seen good players call with worse
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:16 AM
Elrazor Elrazor is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

[ QUOTE ]
It looks to me that pushing is unwise against MP2's range (2P, set, OESD, wrap

[/ QUOTE ]

without doing the numbers you are probably a slight dog with a wrap, 70/30 v OESD, 30/70 v set and a slight fav v 2 pair.

i really dont expect to see a set as part of his range tho so, as the shove on the flop gave him a chance to shove himself and with plenty of dead money in the middle already i think pushing is better than calling, although you really cant fault a call here
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:37 AM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

as Elrazor says you should be able to heavily discount sets because they would have pushed, if he has a made hand it is likely a weak one like 2 pair, and that might even fold to a push. (You should be a small dog to 2 pair here btw). Also it's hard for him to have an overpair, though something like QQ45 isn't out of the question.

Shoving 99 for value might be a bit thin though, because if he has any pair or any overcard that gives him extra outs.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2007, 06:27 PM
JanelleBB7 JanelleBB7 is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

Disgaree with folding preflop. As stated, I have position and there are so many callers that the pot is too sweet not to enter. I pretty much ALWAYS call in late position with this many callers.

Disagree with NOT calling. I didn't think anyone would actually say fold lol. But i see you said this because of the raise (which I did not know was going to occur).

[ QUOTE ]
as Elrazor says you should be able to heavily discount sets because they would have pushed

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was thinking anyone with a set would most likely have pushed.

The reason why I was asking about pushing on the turn is because this might squeeze out the middle player who has a lot of chips and appears to just be speculating at this point.

Even if he should call I figure I have outs and the pot odds to make it worth it.

Here is where I think Fold equity takes place... anyone see that potential here?

By getting the middle player to fold, I can get better equity for my draw because now instead of having maybe a 33% chance of winning I figure it will be a lot closer to 50% chance with only a 33% investment. LOL Yeah my math is fuzzy estimate math here not actually calculated. Maybe one of you math whizzes can test my theory here.
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2007, 08:54 PM
Rob121 Rob121 is offline
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Default Re: Push or Call on Flop - 3 Way Pot

im my opinion your to deep to be shoving this flop with such a marginal hand. mp2 could be playing a bottom or mid set slow seeing that your 160 bb deep. whok knows what else he calls with seeing you have no reads. i dont see why you want to isolate utg +1 here. his range has you crushed. might as well keep mp2 in now that you priced yourself in.

i fold this all day preflop, i can't see how this hand is +ev by calling. your not closing the action and seeing a flop with a pair of nines and rags 6 ways just seems way to thin. i might open this hand at a tight table in late position but cold calling just seems awful.
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