CC on button with KQo

Losfer · #1 11-28-2007, 07:53 AM

This was a hand I was discussing with some other people and I was hoping to get the collective wisdom of 2+2. It' the fourth hand at the table, so there is no read.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($124.55)
MP ($135.15)
CO ($32.65)
Hero ($80.85)
SB ($132.25)
BB ($100)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $3.5, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.50, 2 folds.

Flop: ($8.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6.

Turn: ($20.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $12, UTG raises to $36, Hero calls $24.

River: ($92.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $35.35 (All-In), UTG calls $35.35.

Final Pot: $163.20

Everyone agreed that the hand was played poorly but there was no consensus on what the correct line should be.

Thanks.

hockeyf · #2 11-28-2007, 07:58 AM

Easy turn push. Maybe you can fold preflop. And play with a full stack.

Nick Royale · #3 11-28-2007, 07:59 AM

Get it in on the turn. You're ahead very often and you're pot committed so you might as well get it in already.

Yeah fold preflop...

Daddy Warbucks · #4 11-28-2007, 08:01 AM

I don't get what villain is supposed to be repping?

hockeyf · #5 11-28-2007, 08:02 AM

AK, AA, KQ, sets and big semibluffs.

Daddy Warbucks · #6 11-28-2007, 08:04 AM

I guess AQs/AJs could be part of his range too.

DaycareInferno · #7 11-28-2007, 08:06 AM

i would fold pf vs. an unknown. hands like that are a dime a dozen, so i'd rather know a bit more about my villain before i start calling with that, especially a utg villain. flop, i'd call. turn, i'd bet more and call a shove. i'm not going to fold top 2 vs. an unknown, because he's going to be an idiot that shows up with something stupid more often than he's going to be some guy coolering you with a KK or whatever.

clowntable · #8 11-28-2007, 08:12 AM

I fold this preflop vs nitty/average UTG players. The fishyer or looser they are the more I call.
I'll also call more often if one of the blinds is a fish, especially if they call with KT/QT kind of hands.

Assuming a tight range from UTG we are ahead of all but AQ/QQ/AA/KK(77/33) but if he plays all PPs + AQ we are still ahead more often than beat. So I think the call on the flop is ok. Alternatively you could "raise to define your hand" but that just folds out the cbets that missed and TT etc and is more of a weak play imo.

Given stack size I shove the turn because I can't fold top two with that much money in the pot if he could very well have AK.

Losfer · #9 11-28-2007, 08:16 AM

If you aren't going to fold, is it better to raise or just call?

My general argument was to fold PF, but if you thought UTG was going to raise light (which we have to reason to believe at this point) then hero should re-raise.

I feel like CC just makes that hand very awkward.

Also, why not raise the flop. If you're going to play KQ what better flop are you looking for? Is it just a matter of keeping the pot small at that point?

DaycareInferno · #10 11-28-2007, 08:38 AM

raising the flop is bad, because it doesn't get rid of anything that's ahead of you, and it folds out almost everything that you're ahead of. you'd much rather just call there.

the turn is pretty simple too, because the guy is basically showing you that he's not a very good player. c/ring turns against unknowns is usually dumb. c/ring that turn on that board against an unknown is pretty hideous with anything. he doesn't know if you're floaty or not. he doesn't know if you'll bet the turn. he doesn't know how you play draws, etc. if he had a good hand, he should bet for value, because the board is kind of dangerous, and you're unknown. if he picked up a big draw, he should bet, because that turn is really good for double barrelling anyway. so, you know he's at least kind of bad, you have top 2, you put your money in.