s915 and Brocathmel

[captain_swing]

s915 has really beaten me up; actually he is the 3rd winningest player against me in my (fairly small FT) db, up 40 BBs over 2000 hands. I feel like I have been getting cold decked by him, putting in a lot of bets with some good second best hands. But I think I have also had trouble adjusting or have made the wrong adjustments. At this point, I consistently play rope-a-dope against him, going passive a ton of the time whether my hand has showdown value or not (i.e. if it is a draw that must improve to win). I will take A-hi to showdown if the board doesn’t come really bad—like 4 medium connected cards or 3 high cards. I don’t take K-hi to showdown as much. I also basically show down a pair.

Originally I would play back on the flop with both good made hands and draws but I found he was pretty good at reading me and 3-betting or capping when I had a draw and releasing when I had a medium-top pair kind of hand. I’m not sure if that was just bad luck and he was stronger when I was drawing and weaker when I was strong or if he is a good hand reader or if my pattern was in some way obvious.

In any case, now I usually play both kind of hands passive, raising when I hit the draw and often waiting for the turn or even the river with TP+good kicker kind of hands. With monsters, I will often play fast, however, if the board might have hit him too.

I think my style exploits, theoretically at least, his relative weakness of not being able to turn off bluffs against calls on scary boards—in my experience he will always 2-barrel and quite often 3-barrel when I should look pretty showdown bound from the flop call. It makes him think I am weak tight and a punching bag so encourages him to bluff even more than he already does. It also makes sure I don’t get outplayed and fold a winner. But like I said, all that is only theoretical; he has beaten me pretty soundly over the short term.

I think my style gives up a lot of equity because what can be really profitable playing against LAGs is getting several bets in with pretty good hands when they goes to war with less. Also my passivity gives up the chance to tilt him. Playing in this style where I am constantly ceding him the initiative also does not feel great and I risk tilting myself. Last, I feel he is stealing more than his fair share against me, especially from the small blind vs. the big blind. It feels a little too like fit or fold against him.

Another potential leak in my game is that I have taken to just calling vs. his small blind raises with good (but not great) hands, like QJs, or A7, hands that clearly destroy his range. In my experience, I gain a decent bit of fold equity when I three-bet his B or CO raise from the SB but a lot less when I 3-bet him out of the Big blind vs. his SB steal. So I don’t want to bloat the pot PF and fold the winner post-flop. I also want him to be bluffing into smaller pots, getting worse odds on the bluff.

I switch gears when the pot is 3-handed, trying my best to isolate villain. And I will aggressively re-raise from button or small blind to isolate his steal.

Here are some sample hands culled from different sessions but the dynamic from session to session has been consistent imo:
1. I open utg with 99, a 38/16/.9 cold calls in CO, villain calls in BB. F=JxTc3c. I would probably call all the way to showdown if it was heads up.
2. He opens in SB. I call with K6. F=3hJs4h. Bet, call. T=7s. Bet call. River=Qx. He Checks, I check back.
3. He opens in small blind. I call with QcJc. F=As6s3h. He bets, I fold.
4. He opens in small blind. I call with Ad3d. F=4c6c6h. He bets, I call. T=3c. He bets, I call. R=9s. He checks, I bet. This turn seems like an easy raise.
5. He opens in small blind. I call in BB with 54. F=73cTc. Bet, call. Turn=9d. Bet, fold.
6. I open utg with KcJd. He 3 bets in BB. F=6s6c4c. He bets, I call. T=As. He bets, I call. R=Tc. He checks, I check.
7. He opens on B, I 3-bet with Ks9s from sb. F=8c5h9c. I bet, he raises, I 3 bet, he call. T=Ts. Bet, call. R=4s. I bet, he folds.
8. He opens in SB. I call with JsTc. F=9h8d5h. He bets, I call. T=6c. He bets, I call. R=3c. He checks, I bet.
9. Tag opens in CO, villain three bets in SB, I cap with AcKs, CO folds. F=6cAd8c. Check, bet, raise, I just call. T=9h. He leads, I raise, he folds.
10. I open utg with AcJc. He calls in BB. F=9hKcJs. He checkraises and I just call. T=Ah. He checks, I bet, he folds.
11. He opens in SB. I call with Ac8c. F=Qd5hAd. He bets, I call. T=Th. He bets, I call. R=Qs. He bets, I call.
12. He opens in CO, I 3-bet with AcQs on B. F=7c8dTd. He checkraises, I call. T=Jh. Bet call. R=Th. Bet, call.

I realize this format of the hands might not be very conducive for discussion and I would happily pull some out for their own threads, but I am more interested in a general discussion of my overall strategy against this type of opponent. I also hope it’s not problematic posting hands with someone else’s screen name; I really am more interested in learning better counter strategies to a type of player (pretty extreme LAGs who are thinking and decent hand readers).

[baronzeus]

I don't think anyone with 50VPIP is a winner. It just can't be possible, unless no one adjusts to them.

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone with 50VPIP is a winner. It just can't be possible, unless no one adjusts to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's silly, of course a 50 VPIP can be a winner, there's just no way they wouldn't win more playing fewer hands.

[bull0x]

huh why of course? I also think its probably technically not possible to be 50VIP (6max) and a winner long term. Against decent opponents you will be playing hands as a dog or of equal value most of the time.

50vip is a lot of hands

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone with 50VPIP is a winner. It just can't be possible, unless no one adjusts to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. He makes money b/c his opponents are bad. For example not raising him PF with a wide range (that includes for example hands like A7o or 98s etc) especially when he is looser on EP and you can have position on him.
Also I don't understand why you will play passively post flop when he loves to SD. IMO you should play your bottom pair like the nuts and very rarely semibluff but more frequently make cold bluffs (still rarely just more often than semis)