pretty close i think

kurosh · #1 02-17-2007, 01:52 AM

4-handed, villains are all idiots. UTG is passiveish PF, ok postflop but a call station. Button is aggro but limps a fair amount pf. SB is about 40/13/.5.

limp limp complete, i check KcJx in the BB.

Flop: Tc 7c 8x, chk chk, utg bets, button calls, sb folds. Can I peel here?

baronzeus · #2 02-17-2007, 01:58 AM

i dont think you can not peel here

Scary_Tiger · #3 02-17-2007, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i dont think you can not peel here

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I also raise pf sometimes.

Nate tha\\\' Great · #4 02-17-2007, 02:20 AM

Take a card off.

Catt · #5 02-17-2007, 02:33 AM

I can't imagine not peeling here

(given the description of opponents. I CAN imagine not peeling, but such event would be under very limited circumstances, to the extent that I'm not sure I can recall an actual instance that I've played that meets the hypothetical circumstances).

kurosh · #6 02-17-2007, 02:48 AM

I dunno. I've been folding in these spots. The pot isn't very big and it's very likely one of them has a pair. If they don't have a pair, a lot of outs. I have no idea which of my outs are good. Even if I hit, I can get outdrawn very easily. Button is definitely capable of bluff raising on scary boards.

Yeah, maybe it is marginally +EV to call, but I would have to play perfectly postflop and I don't think I'm that good. It just seems like it's not worth it.

PartyGirlUK · #7 02-17-2007, 02:57 AM

nate clear your pms

Catt · #8 02-17-2007, 02:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. I've been folding in these spots. The pot isn't very big and it's very likely one of them has a pair. If they don't have a pair, a lot of outs. I have no idea which of my outs are good. Even if I hit, I can get outdrawn very easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this makes the hand pretty tough to play confidently and well; but I don't think it makes the hand a fold (though I agree with all of your points that imply folding might make sense).

[ QUOTE ]
Button is definitely capable of bluff raising on scary boards.

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I'd continue on confidently only if I was comfortable that I knew how I'd behave with a Button aggro action (i.e., if I thought BUtton had an opportunity to blow me off the hand on a relatively "blank" turn, I might call here intending to donk the turn in a lot of circumstances (as awful as that looks based on my hand strength / equity and the potential action on the turn) as opposed to peeling and subjecting myself to UTG and BUtton's shenanigans).

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, maybe it is marginally +EV to call, but I would have to play perfectly postflop and I don't think I'm that good. It just seems like it's not worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It won't be worth it in some circumstances (IMHO) but I think in the circumstances you describe and the general "atmosphere" I expect to find myself in a 4-handed game given my own play characteristics, I'd be really hard-pressed to find a fold here.

veganmav · #9 02-17-2007, 04:02 AM

I vote def. Peel.

Dane S · #10 02-17-2007, 04:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno. I've been folding in these spots. The pot isn't very big and it's very likely one of them has a pair. If they don't have a pair, a lot of outs. I have no idea which of my outs are good. Even if I hit, I can get outdrawn very easily. Button is definitely capable of bluff raising on scary boards.

Yeah, maybe it is marginally +EV to call, but I would have to play perfectly postflop and I don't think I'm that good. It just seems like it's not worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's never hard to find justifications for talking yourself out of thinly +EV plays. If there weren't a bunch of negative consequences mixed in with the positive, they wouldn't be thin plays. You just gotta be confident in your knowledge of the game.