FT 25NL: 2pair & Nut Flush draw vs likely made straight

JackKingOff · #1 11-12-2007, 07:20 PM

I don't have any stats on these two, but they've been pretty loose passive.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($15.50)
BB ($28.95)
UTG ($12.35)
Hero ($29.90)
CO ($32.55)
Button ($21.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, BB checks.

 There has been some a fair amount of limping in the last couple orbits and no raises, so I decide to limp behind. 

Flop: ($0.85) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.85, BB calls $0.85, UTG calls $0.85.

I took a stab at it with 2nd Pair and planned to shut down on the turn.

Turn: ($3.40) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $3, BB raises to $6, UTG raises to $9.75, Hero...

Final Pot: $70.35

When they both wake up on the turn, I'm sure I'm facing at least one straight, probably two. What's my best line here? Fold, Push, or just Call? Comments on other streets are welcome too.

evilhamit · #2 11-12-2007, 07:26 PM

i think checking behind on the turn is way better than betting, cause u will unlikely get any action unless somebody has a queen

wooziephantom · #3 11-12-2007, 07:30 PM

Don't bet the turn!
As played I'll insta-fold, ur drawing to 4 outs most of the time here, and u have bb to act behind u.. And the fact that they've been loose PASSIVE further underlines the need for a fold..

Edit: didn't see the flushdraw, lol! I still think I fold a large percentage of the time since ur opponents are loose passive and can't see utg doing this without the queen... And u still have bb to act behind u and he seems to like his hand too.

EMc · #4 11-12-2007, 07:31 PM

They are giving you a chance to suck the [censored] out of them. Check te turn, hit the river and obtain 2 stacks.

Nick C · #5 11-12-2007, 07:34 PM

Crap, I guess we should begin with the consequences of a BB push. That would mean (if we're calling) that we have to invest about $25 more in the hopes of winning about $45. And with 13+ seemingly pretty solid outs (the clubs, the K's, the T's, and also a probable two Q's to a 3-way chop), the price we're getting is not too awful, even in this worst-case scenario of facing a BB push.

He may raise less though (hell, I guess there's even an outside chance he'll just call), and UTG doesn't have enough left behind to pop it again.

So I think you can call. I wouldn't reraise it myself, though. In fact, I don't think I'm being too results-oriented when I say that your turn bet seems really bold to me (in the sense of "reckless"). But, then again, I hate betting an obvious scare card and then getting raised by someone who was counting on me to do just that. (And there are two people who potentially can checkraise you here.)

Lego05 · #6 11-12-2007, 07:43 PM

Grunch....

Limping pre-flop sucks. Raise or fold depending on your abilities post-flop.

Check behind on the turn. What worse hand is going to call you? JT? Literally everything else beats you and JT might not even call.

This is a super easy fold once you get check raised by one of them (unless you have odds to try to hit) let alone both of them. You don't have immediate odds here (and UTG has no money left). And here the betting won't even close and another raise could be put in after you call.

JackKingOff · #7 11-12-2007, 08:24 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone. I knew I screwed this one up, but I didn't even think to check the turn. I guess I got in the mode of "I've got a good hand, I need to bet it" instead of seeing that I'll only get called (or raised) by a better hand.