KK and i know whatever happens in this hand i will be lost

[recallme]

Villain is tag and i think knows that i am pretty aggro.

Hero is button with KhKc Nl1k 100BB

3 folds, Hero raises to 35, SB folds, BB calls

Flop is: 70$
5d4cJc
Hero bets 55 and villain c/r to 200, hero calls 145

Turn is: 470
8c

Villain bets 350, Hero calls

River is: 1170$
8h
Villain shoves for 430 and Hero?

Is the turn a fold? I have outs to the K high Flush and i could be in front of his J.

Can i fold the river getting these odds.

I have the feeling i butchered this hand totally.

[john kane]

flop i time down and call, to make him think he has more FE by leading the turn.

turn card is probably the worst card in the deck, i fold.

most turn cards i would go on all when he bets.

given that turn card i fold.

i dont think you should ever be calling the turn and folding the river.

[recallme]

other thoughts?

[RuffRhyder]

Sorry, no other thoughts since I agree with Mr Kane

[Trivial]

call, don't mind shoving flop on this board

[Snygaard]

Yeah I think folding turn is good. can't imagine a worse turn card

[JEFF or DAD]

heres a thought, 3 bet the flop

[john kane]

personally i don't like 3 betting the flop. it pot commits you when he pushes given his range i.e. your definitely playing for stacks. if your playing for stacks he's going to be getting in with a worse range on the turn as more often he'll have the sole jack or continuing a semi bluff, whereas by him push 4betting the flop he will less often be on a draw or have the jack, thus more often you'll be versus set, 45 or monster draw.

when you have a strong hand but large stacks relative to the pot, i think faking fold equity to your opponent is a better play as it means he is aggressive with a worse range of hands then if your aggressive and pot committing yourself vs a higher range of hands. especially when it pot commits your opponent when he could be playing for fold equity with a draw.

maybe that all makes no sense, i dunno, but i think the gist of it is right, that his range is worse when he senses fold equity than when he sees you 3 betting and still decides to push. for sure you may get some jacks and draws to be folding on the flop, but im happy enough that he'll be firing on the turn the 4 in 5 times he misses or so and then ill pot commit him with a raise, so meh, im happy with him not folding and instead firing again.

[Scipio]

On the turn i would choose between folding and pushing. I don´t understand the reason behind calling. He could have AJ with nutflushdraw or he could fold to a 4. club on the river.

[AAismyfriend]

Yea I agree calling turn seems like the worst option. Since you did call turn the river is a mandatory call IMO. I'd fold the turn against some here but shoving isn't that bad depending on the type of player villain is.