Just Saw Sicko, Now Have Question

[John Spartan]

sorry bud but i'm not going to support eliminating 95% of the government and hope that private charity takes care of the unfortunate and unlucky. people died of starvation in the streets in the 1800s. that is a historical fact. a ton more people died from exposure as wel. this doesn't realy happen anymore and it's because of the social support structure that our governments at various levels provide.

[Emperor]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry bud but i'm not going to support eliminating 95% of the government and hope that private charity takes care of the unfortunate and unlucky. people died of starvation in the streets in the 1800s. that is a historical fact. a ton more people died from exposure as wel. this doesn't realy happen anymore and it's because of the social support structure that our governments at various levels provide.

[/ QUOTE ]


Umm didnt ~15,000 people just die of exposure in France. A country with a socialist healthcare system? This would never happen in America.

[John Spartan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry bud but i'm not going to support eliminating 95% of the government and hope that private charity takes care of the unfortunate and unlucky. people died of starvation in the streets in the 1800s. that is a historical fact. a ton more people died from exposure as wel. this doesn't realy happen anymore and it's because of the social support structure that our governments at various levels provide.

[/ QUOTE ]


Umm didnt ~15,000 people just die of exposure in France. A country with a socialist healthcare system? This would never happen in America.

[/ QUOTE ]

More than 18,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. nice try.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...nce-deaths.htm

[econophile]

i wonder if people who say that healthcare is a right are thinking carefully about what that entails. since my state of healthcare is not dichotomous (i.e. cared for or not cared for) but rather continuous, we must decide how much health care i am entitled to.

and we should further realize that the amount and quality of healthcare provided depends on how many resources (physical and human) are devoted to healthcare. because these resources could be used producing other things, increasing the amount of resources devoted to healthcare (other things being equal) has to decrease something else (let's say education).

so now let's say we've decided that both education and healthcare are human rights and this means that everyone is entitled the best quality of each and as much as they want. then something has to give.

anyway, there are well-reasoned for specific government interventions in the market for healthcare. but claiming that healthcare is a right is either meaningless or nonsensical. if you want better healthcare and you want the government to go about it, you should figure out exactly what that means and how it would be an improvement.

[John Spartan]

econophile, you have to do better than that.

if we argue that the right to life is a human right, which i believe it is, and it is a right that trumps all others, then clearly health care has a higher priority than education? what use is a 4 year scholarship to college when you have AIDS and can't get the treatment you need?

health care before education every time. i would gladly cut education funding to fund health care if that's what it took, but i don't think that is necessary. as others have pointed out, we already spend a lot more per person than most developed countries with universal care. we could take a lot of money from the bloated pentagon budget which is like 400 billion a year, and put it into health care.

[Tupacia]

[ QUOTE ]

so now let's say we've decided that both education and healthcare are human rights and this means that everyone is entitled the best quality of each and as much as they want. then something has to give.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody here is saying that health care being a right means that everyone can get the best treatment possible. The notion that health care is a human right just means that there is some minimal level of care that everyone is entitled to regardless of their means. The obvious challenge is defining that threshold.

I have a right to free speech, but that doesn't mean that I can scream "fire" in a crowded theater or issue death threats. The task of government is to balance competing rights claims.

[John Spartan]

[ QUOTE ]
The 2+2 genus of libertarian is the least persuasive I've encountered. If you want to convert people to your line of thinking, the "taxes=slavery" arg ain't gonna do it.

Instead, say things like the "free market can solve the healthcare crisis by X,Y, and Z" and "in the past, government intervention into health care has produced (insert negative event here). This is pretty basic persuasion 101 here folks.

Talk about the free-market proposals to alleviate the health care crisis and stop derailing/hijacking/trolling this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

great post. but i don't think they will do that because they know that there aren't many valid arguments of that classification.

and to econophile, like i said, i do not believe that education is an absolute human right. some people just don't belong in college. everyone requires and needs health care.

[Emperor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry bud but i'm not going to support eliminating 95% of the government and hope that private charity takes care of the unfortunate and unlucky. people died of starvation in the streets in the 1800s. that is a historical fact. a ton more people died from exposure as wel. this doesn't realy happen anymore and it's because of the social support structure that our governments at various levels provide.

[/ QUOTE ]


Umm didnt ~15,000 people just die of exposure in France. A country with a socialist healthcare system? This would never happen in America.

[/ QUOTE ]

More than 18,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. nice try.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...nce-deaths.htm

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but those people deserved to die. Lazy Americans with no health insurance.

[John Spartan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry bud but i'm not going to support eliminating 95% of the government and hope that private charity takes care of the unfortunate and unlucky. people died of starvation in the streets in the 1800s. that is a historical fact. a ton more people died from exposure as wel. this doesn't realy happen anymore and it's because of the social support structure that our governments at various levels provide.

[/ QUOTE ]


Umm didnt ~15,000 people just die of exposure in France. A country with a socialist healthcare system? This would never happen in America.

[/ QUOTE ]

More than 18,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. nice try.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...nce-deaths.htm

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but those people deserved to die. Lazy Americans with no health insurance.

[/ QUOTE ]

nice argument. it's clear that you have nothing of use to contribute to this thread. if someone is homeless and has AIDS, and tries to get ahead in life but can't because they were dealt bad life cards when they were born, so they ca't afford health insurance, they deserve to die. very nice, emperor.

at least we got a peek at the sentiment that pervades the right.

if you have an objection to the homeless AIDS example because AIDS is mostly preventable, then sub in leukemia or breast cancer instead.

[Emperor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry bud but i'm not going to support eliminating 95% of the government and hope that private charity takes care of the unfortunate and unlucky. people died of starvation in the streets in the 1800s. that is a historical fact. a ton more people died from exposure as wel. this doesn't realy happen anymore and it's because of the social support structure that our governments at various levels provide.

[/ QUOTE ]


Umm didnt ~15,000 people just die of exposure in France. A country with a socialist healthcare system? This would never happen in America.

[/ QUOTE ]

More than 18,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. nice try.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...nce-deaths.htm

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but those people deserved to die. Lazy Americans with no health insurance.

[/ QUOTE ]

nice argument. it's clear that you have nothing of use to contribute to this thread. if someone is homeless and has AIDS, and tries to get ahead in life but can't because they were dealt bad life cards when they were born, so they ca't afford health insurance, they deserve to die. very nice, emperor.

at least we got a peek at the sentiment that pervades the right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank You for the compliment.

If you read my post earlier, I am included in the group of those people that desreves to die because I have not taken the responsibility to get health insurance.