Just Saw Sicko, Now Have Question

[John Spartan]

I thought Bush lowered the top marginal tax rate to 35%? I don't know because I'm not in it, but that's what I thought.

[John Spartan]

[ QUOTE ]
You mean BlueCrap/BlueShit ?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. first time i've heard that

[Emperor]

For all the people saying wait times are exaggerated..

We're not talking about wait to see a doctor to get your arm sewn back on after the tractor accident.

We are talk refferals to specialists and MRI/other hi end test. Refferal to a neurosurgeon takes almost a year. Refferal to an orthopedist even longer.

I can walk down to the local orthopedist here, jam a fistfull of cash in his hand, and ask him to fire up his PERSONAL MRI machine and take a look.

No one thinks that Canadians are running around the ER with bloody stumps waiting for service.

[John Spartan]

Emperor, I would rather have people have to wait a few months for elective non-medically necessary surgery than have people dying of cancer or other diseases because they don't have the money for treatment and don't have insurance. The greed displayed in this thread is astounding.

I see nothing wrong with prioritizing medical treatment.

YES people can go to the ER but they don't have to treat for transplants, cancer treatment, or anything non-emergency.

And no most orthopedists in the US wil not take cash. only insurance.

And you guys keep ignoring the fact that plenty of people in this country who DO have insurance are still getting [censored] up the ass by those companies. The insurance companies will regularly deny valid claims to add to their bottom line and many people cannot afford a lawyer to go after them for this and force them to pay. It's called BAD FAITH INSURANCE and it is a huge concern.

And you have no room to talk Emperor. You tried to deny the fact that administrative costs are much higher in the US than Canada.

And then there's all the people who are "under insured", which means that their cap on their insurance payment is so low that if they need cancer treatment or expensive tests or a long hospital stay, they can still end up getting the shaft to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

[Emperor]

[ QUOTE ]
Emperor, I would rather have people have to wait a few months for elective non-medically necessary surgery than have people dying of cancer or other diseases because they don't have the money for treatment and don't have insurance. The greed displayed in this thread is astounding.

I see nothing wrong with prioritizing medical treatment.

YES people can go to the ER but they don't have to treat for transplants, cancer treatment, or anything non-emergency.

And no most orthopedists in the US wil not take cash. only insurance.

And you guys keep ignoring the fact that plenty of people in this country who DO have insurance are still getting [censored] up the ass by those companies. The insurance companies will regularly deny valid claims to add to their bottom line and many people cannot afford a lawyer to go after them for this and force them to pay. It's called BAD FAITH INSURANCE and it is a huge concern.

And you have no room to talk Emperor. You tried to deny the fact that administrative costs are much higher in the US than Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, those people should have gotten an education, a job, and bought some insurance.

They didn't. So they suffer the consequences.

Should society provide them a mercedes and a mansion as well?

You want to take from some people who were responsible, and give to those that weren't. That is called theft.

[Emperor]

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And you have no room to talk Emperor. You tried to deny the fact that administrative costs are much higher in the US than Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

You were right, I was wrong.

Easy solution. Since the government is bureacracy is the bulk of the cost, then get rid of it. Not increase it.

[John Spartan]

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[ QUOTE ]
Emperor, I would rather have people have to wait a few months for elective non-medically necessary surgery than have people dying of cancer or other diseases because they don't have the money for treatment and don't have insurance. The greed displayed in this thread is astounding.

I see nothing wrong with prioritizing medical treatment.

YES people can go to the ER but they don't have to treat for transplants, cancer treatment, or anything non-emergency.

And no most orthopedists in the US wil not take cash. only insurance.

And you guys keep ignoring the fact that plenty of people in this country who DO have insurance are still getting [censored] up the ass by those companies. The insurance companies will regularly deny valid claims to add to their bottom line and many people cannot afford a lawyer to go after them for this and force them to pay. It's called BAD FAITH INSURANCE and it is a huge concern.

And you have no room to talk Emperor. You tried to deny the fact that administrative costs are much higher in the US than Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, those people should have gotten an education, a job, and bought some insurance.

They didn't. So they suffer the consequences.

Should society provide them a mercedes and a mansion as well?

You want to take from some people who were responsible, and give to those that weren't. That is called theft.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please spare me your simplistic taxation is theft libertarian argument. It is old and distracts from the true debate in this thread. This thread is about health care. I'm tired of you people bringing that argument into every thread about every government program or idea.

If I win the genetic lottery and am born to millionaires, and you lose and are born to a crack whore mother and have no father raising you, I should just say [censored] you and let you die? It's not society's responsibility to provide health care for people so that they don't die prematurely?

[Emperor]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Emperor, I would rather have people have to wait a few months for elective non-medically necessary surgery than have people dying of cancer or other diseases because they don't have the money for treatment and don't have insurance. The greed displayed in this thread is astounding.

I see nothing wrong with prioritizing medical treatment.

YES people can go to the ER but they don't have to treat for transplants, cancer treatment, or anything non-emergency.

And no most orthopedists in the US wil not take cash. only insurance.

And you guys keep ignoring the fact that plenty of people in this country who DO have insurance are still getting [censored] up the ass by those companies. The insurance companies will regularly deny valid claims to add to their bottom line and many people cannot afford a lawyer to go after them for this and force them to pay. It's called BAD FAITH INSURANCE and it is a huge concern.

And you have no room to talk Emperor. You tried to deny the fact that administrative costs are much higher in the US than Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, those people should have gotten an education, a job, and bought some insurance.

They didn't. So they suffer the consequences.

Should society provide them a mercedes and a mansion as well?

You want to take from some people who were responsible, and give to those that weren't. That is called theft.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please spare me your simplistic taxation is theft libertarian argument. It is old and distracts from the true debate in this thread. This thread is about health care. I'm tired of you people bringing that argument into every thread about every government program or idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and I am tired of thieves trying to steal and then justify it.


FWIW... I currently am UNINSURED. Its expensive, but I sure as hell don't want the government to steal from my neighbor so that I can receive treatment. I'd rather die first than to be a thief..

[John Spartan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Emperor, I would rather have people have to wait a few months for elective non-medically necessary surgery than have people dying of cancer or other diseases because they don't have the money for treatment and don't have insurance. The greed displayed in this thread is astounding.

I see nothing wrong with prioritizing medical treatment.

YES people can go to the ER but they don't have to treat for transplants, cancer treatment, or anything non-emergency.

And no most orthopedists in the US wil not take cash. only insurance.

And you guys keep ignoring the fact that plenty of people in this country who DO have insurance are still getting [censored] up the ass by those companies. The insurance companies will regularly deny valid claims to add to their bottom line and many people cannot afford a lawyer to go after them for this and force them to pay. It's called BAD FAITH INSURANCE and it is a huge concern.

And you have no room to talk Emperor. You tried to deny the fact that administrative costs are much higher in the US than Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, those people should have gotten an education, a job, and bought some insurance.

They didn't. So they suffer the consequences.

Should society provide them a mercedes and a mansion as well?

You want to take from some people who were responsible, and give to those that weren't. That is called theft.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please spare me your simplistic taxation is theft libertarian argument. It is old and distracts from the true debate in this thread. This thread is about health care. I'm tired of you people bringing that argument into every thread about every government program or idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and I am tired of thieves trying to steal and then justify it.


FWIW... I currently am UNINSURED. Its expensive, but I sure as hell don't want the government to steal from my neighbor so that I can receive treatment. I'd rather die first than to be a thief..

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I suppose you never went to public schools on other people's tax money... never drove on public roads that the richest people contributed more $ to...

[Tupacia]

There is a huge difference between saying someone has a right to receive decent health care and saying that someone has a right to a fancy car or big house. The fact that you equate all government programs based on theft shows you have a nuanced understanding of the issues involved.

Even though I'm usually inherently distrustful of most government interventions into the market doesn't mean that I can't recognize when a market is failing to provide a "good" (health care) to a large portion of the population. The U.S. is the wealthiest nation in the world, yet the WHO ranks as having the 37th best health care system in the world = something is amiss.

The market exists to serve us, and not the other way around. If the government "stealing" from people means that an extra 40 million people in this country have access to health care, then I'm fine with that. Last I checked, murder was a much bigger crime than larceny.

Furthermore, taxes really aren't theft. If you don't wish to pay them, you can go to a different country that has fewer taxes or spends tax dollars in a way you find appropriate. If my landlord raises rent, it's not theft - it's the marketplace in action. If I don't like the raise in rent, I can either leave or pay up. How are taxes any different?