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  #21  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:05 PM
Some9 Some9 is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

I like it if you call river. Yeah eh will have AK sometimes, but you can't fold here as the hand is top of your range and hence folding would be exploitable.
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  #22  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:09 PM
Fat Nicky Fat Nicky is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

question: why were you going into this river planning to check/fold?

also, i don't mind a turn check at all (if you were planning to crai), but once the turn checks through, i'm value betting this river.
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  #23  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:13 PM
Dire Dire is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

[ QUOTE ]
question: why were you going into this river planning to check/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

ESP obv.
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:16 PM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

[ QUOTE ]
I like it if you call river. Yeah eh will have AK sometimes, but you can't fold here as the hand is top of your range and hence folding would be exploitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

exploitable by who? ppl who know what we folded? our line looks so weak that hes def not going to think we layed down a big hand and even if he did and even if he started trying to run us over - u could just adjust his range accordingly. But, just cause our line looks weaker than our hand actually is, does not by any means imply u have to call an overbet shove when a flush hits. I think its also very unlikely villain checks behind two pair or better on the turn, so like i said, hes mostly likely drawing and I'd fold this river to an unknown's first overbet. It seems like ppl r just spewing terms like under-repped or exploitable etc. when really the only thing that matters is villain's range.
Plz propose some plausible hands that we beat and I think ull find that itll just come down to what i stated earlier about whether or not he would overbet bluff a busted straight draw enough of the time to make calling profitable.
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  #25  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:31 PM
Dire Dire is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

Exploitable by anybody who's even remotely capable of picking up on tendencies. Hero's hand is the nut single pair hand - and he said he planned to check/fold the river. Meaning he's giving villain credit for two pair or better after villain's incredibly strong line of calling a cbet and checking behind on the turn. That is called playing weak tight. It's not uncommon, it's easy to pick up on, and very easy to exploit.
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:35 PM
billybeartku billybeartku is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

why don't you bet the turn and you wouldn't have the river tough decision since after the turn bet you are committed
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:42 PM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

[ QUOTE ]
Exploitable by anybody who's even remotely capable of picking up on tendencies. Hero's hand is the nut single pair hand - and he said he planned to check/fold the river. Meaning he's giving villain credit for two pair or better after villain's incredibly strong line of calling a cbet and checking behind on the turn. That is called playing weak tight, and it's not uncommon and easy to pick up on.

[/ QUOTE ]

If u think that sum1 is running u over than simply adjust his range accordingly. Just cause villain wasn't betting and raising the flop and turn doesn't mean he can't have a very strong hand with that river card obviously so just closing ur eyes and throwing around these useless statements like "TP in a 3bet pot AND its under-repped = snap call", even if its an overbet shove on a flush completing river and a line which looks an awful lot like a flush draw. Again, provide hands which villain might have, here r a couple of assumptions I made in deciding that villain is almost always drawing - he didnt raise flop or bet turn on a very wet board so its unlikely he has a strong hand, he wouldnt overbet shove a hand like KQ on the river here AND it is very very unlikely that he floats this flop, but.... if he did happen to do it he would almost certaintly bet the turn.
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:38 AM
Dire Dire is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

markuisis, when your standard play is to cbet then check the turn and check/fold the river in reraised pots with the nut single pair hand, you are already getting run over by most players standard play already. They don't have to go wild to exploit that sort of play.

And you are really just completely wrong about people's play in reraised pots, and are likely making some huge mistakes in them. People do float, they do make plays, they are not going to just blindly instabluff at the ace without the initiative 100% because "hey it's a scare card" - most players at least take the time to ask themselves what they're representing and what is hero's range, etc.. And how the river would help define the hands and influence the profitability of bluffing, etc..
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  #29  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:40 AM
Rob121 Rob121 is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

i insta call this i dont know
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  #30  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:56 AM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: FT200 Puking in the river

[ QUOTE ]
markuisis, when your standard play is to cbet then check the turn and check/fold the river in reraised pots with the nut single pair hand, you are already getting run over by most players standard play already. They don't have to go wild to exploit that sort of play.

And you are really just completely wrong about people's play in reraised pots, and are likely making some huge mistakes in them. People do float, they do make plays, they are not going to just blindly instabluff at the ace without the initiative 100% because "hey it's a scare card" - most players at least take the time to ask themselves what they're representing and what is hero's range, etc.. And how the river would help define the hands and influence the profitability of bluffing, etc..

[/ QUOTE ]

I clearly said id get it in on the turn so ur first paragraph is useless. And to think that sum1 both floats a very wet board like this AND doesnt bet the turn when he could rep AK, the NFD etc. is ridiculous (not that most ppl care what they r repping at these stakes or that most ppl in hero's shoes r going to call off their stack with QQ here even if the line doesnt make sense - which it does). IF he did happen to float this flop (probably not profitable or likely for an unknown) then he is almost always betting that turn and if he isnt that it is almost certainly not profitable to float. But anyways, all these useless statements/misinterpretations such as saying that I take this line routinely and get run over consistently r derailing the actual question. According to u and some others, villain most likely floated a ridiculously wet board, didn't bet a scary turn and overbet bluff shoved the river. Or....he somehow got to the turn with a hand like AJ or A10 and instead of betting the turn on a dangerous board - overbet shoves a flushed river. As ridiculous as these assumptions r, we HAVE to call because our hand is under-repped or he'll know we folded AQ here somehow and run us over everytime we meet him right??? You have yet to offer a range btw, just making useless statements like "nut single-pair hand" or "this is exploitable". Just to put things into perspective - I think its pretty clear our hand equals a bluff catcher on the river and the only hand I c getting to the river and bluffing is a busted straight draw - and i already explained that I think its more likely that an unknown's first overbet shove is the flush rather than a straight.
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