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View Poll Results: Which QB?
Matt Hasselbeck (Seneca Wallace) at Broncos 4 33.33%
Chad Pennington at Packers 8 66.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:37 PM
MacGuyV MacGuyV is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

Thanks for saving me time. "Put 'em on a hand we beat & call" is now becoming "put 'em on a hand we beat & 3ball"?
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  #42  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:09 PM
DeathDonkey DeathDonkey is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

[ QUOTE ]
some people are saying "he might have JJ." oh, really? so he just called preflop, got a great flop/turn and just called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Miles, so forget about the fact that JJ would probably cap preflop. The above quote is YOURS. You are saying this is a great flop for JJ anyone would put in more action on an earlier street etc. etc.

Then you go on to say:

[ QUOTE ]
i expect to see a ten play this way very often. i play a ten this way very often, in fact, and i know several other players who do the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are drawing that big of a distinction between something like JTs and JJ here? Forget my argument about 3 betting the river entirely, this is like a brand new subject here. That is just crazy to me, I don't think you could be more wrong. How can you say JJ needs to raise postflop but JTs shouldn't. They are like the same hand on this board!

-DeathDonkey
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  #43  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:12 PM
Heisenb3rg Heisenb3rg is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

my logic:

Agro player will raise top pair... he didnt raise. therefore he doesnt haev top pair.. serves me pretty well.. Disagree if u must.

So what else can he have? A pair slightly lower than T's that was fearing reraises from higher pairs , but is using this card as a blocker so you dont reraise the hand you precisly have.

And ppl bet/call AK on this river all the itme
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  #44  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:14 PM
ZOMG_RIGGED! ZOMG_RIGGED! is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

LC post alert:

If I didnt like DD already that post confirms it! I'm not totally crazy!

[ QUOTE ]
my logic:

Agro player will raise top pair... he didnt raise. therefore he doesnt haev top pair.. serves me pretty well.. Disagree if u must

[/ QUOTE ]

AHA! Heis thinks along the same line!

Fist pump for sound logic
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  #45  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:33 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
some people are saying "he might have JJ." oh, really? so he just called preflop, got a great flop/turn and just called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Miles, so forget about the fact that JJ would probably cap preflop. The above quote is YOURS. You are saying this is a great flop for JJ anyone would put in more action on an earlier street etc. etc.

Then you go on to say:

[ QUOTE ]
i expect to see a ten play this way very often. i play a ten this way very often, in fact, and i know several other players who do the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are drawing that big of a distinction between something like JTs and JJ here? Forget my argument about 3 betting the river entirely, this is like a brand new subject here. That is just crazy to me, I don't think you could be more wrong. How can you say JJ needs to raise postflop but JTs shouldn't. They are like the same hand on this board!

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]
i think of calling with JJ+ preflop as a "disguise my hand" play and expect these hands to raise postflop on good boards. did he really just call with JJ preflop in order to call down a ten high board? no. did he call preflop with JT to call down a ten high board? sure.

besides, there is a 5+% difference in equity between JT and JJ and ATo/KTs in the preflop 3-bettor's hand is going to go more bets thinking he has the nuts. they're similar hands, sure, but with JJ you'll only worry about 3 over pairs vs. 4 when you hold a ten.

the main reason i discount JJ almost completely is the combination of pre and postflop action, so you telling me to ignore what i've stated about the preflop action is certainly going to make what i've said sound weird. but you mistunderstood my posts, i guess.
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  #46  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:35 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

also please just drop the JJ conversation. we all know the guy never has JJ. my main point is a competent player should realize he has no edge to raise with 77-99 when the 3-bettor bets the river. so then 3-betting with QQ is dumb.
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  #47  
Old 11-27-2007, 10:41 PM
Heisenb3rg Heisenb3rg is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

I agree with you that raising 77-99 on this river is too thin (altho I think its actually a good raise against an agro player who will bet/call AQ/AK on the river.. they def exist).
However, he should also realize he clearly has the equity edge to raise a T before the river... So , clearly he has a hand that has some deception/FPS to it.

So whats a more common mistake?
From an agro player I think its raising 77-99
to a more passive TAG I think its not raising a T.

Hence why the single AF/WTSD stats are the most important factor.
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  #48  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:01 PM
larm larm is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

I have a noob question regarding pf. What are people 3 betting with in the sb against this utg raiser? 77+ ats+ ajo+ kqs+?

EDIT: just noticed its 5 handed so i added a few hands
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  #49  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:30 PM
FlopYouDead FlopYouDead is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

[ QUOTE ]
So whats a more common mistake?
From an agro player I think its raising 77-99
to a more passive TAG I think its not raising a T.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe like others that 77-99 is paying off?

Yes, AK can bet/call. Bet/3?
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  #50  
Old 11-28-2007, 12:10 AM
ILOVEPOKER929 ILOVEPOKER929 is offline
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Default Re: What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

[ QUOTE ]
my issue is with anyone saying "easy 3-bet" or "insta 3-bet" with such small qualifiers as "if his AF were higher," "if he were a Party regular," or "but you guys know this limit better." this stuff just rubs my anus the wrong way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything Miles has said in this thread except I dont think it's possible to have one's anus rubbed the wrong way.
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