Do you have the balls to fold AA?

[maSkraP]

<u>RESULTS</u>

Hero folds
3rd dude calls the all-in. (he actually raised more.. making me have to go all-in to call if I called previously)
4th dude folds

<u>TURN TO RIVER </u>
6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

5th dude shows 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Eights)
3rd dude shows 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (full house, Seven full of Eights)
1st dude mucks hand

Although I would have won, I was behind a set and am glad to have folded (for in the long run, I believe this will definately save me money). The flop was definately scary and with that kind of all-in bet with another caller... I was definately afraid of a set, flush draw and straight draw. The reason why it took me a while to think about it was for the fact that there are so many ridiculous donks out there in 2NLHE and many of them would go all-in with crap just to scare people. But I guess that's not a big enough reason. Anyways, I folded and to the looks of it, I made the right call. Thanks guys for all your input. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[RiverPlay]

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The reason why it took me a while to think about it was for the fact that there are so many ridiculous donks out there in 2NLHE and many of them would go all-in with crap just to scare people. But I guess that's not a big enough reason.

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I'd never fold AA on the flop at 2NL, way too many donks.

[jcl]

I like never folded AA until 100NL it's like -EV lol. the 678 flop is the classic example of when you should fold it, but don't go out of your way trying to make big folds at 2NL lol.

[tikipirate]

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The reason why it took me a while to think about it was for the fact that there are so many ridiculous donks out there in 2NLHE and many of them would go all-in with crap just to scare people. But I guess that's not a big enough reason.

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I'd never fold AA on the flop at 2NL, way too many donks.

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I would not advocate this at anything but the lower limits...but an insta shove preflop is probably one of the better choices. Your going to get people with lower pp, any broadway cards...just my .02

[maSkraP]

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I like never folded AA until 100NL it's like -EV lol. the 678 flop is the classic example of when you should fold it, but don't go out of your way trying to make big folds at 2NL lol.

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Where would I ever start learning then? Of course I don't treat the money all that seriously right now... however, I do treat my learning curve very seriously and I wouldn't want to make donk decisions simply b/c I know 2NLHE consists of a lot more donks than any other levels. Doing that, I'm pretty much categorizing myself like any other donks out there: never fold aces, never fold tptk, never fold 2 pair, etc... there are times when folding is VERY necessary and if I don't learn this now, I will never fully grasp it later.

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an insta shove preflop is probably one of the better choices.

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I would have shoved preflop if I were given the opportunity. However, I raised and people just called. I wouldn't shove right away... that is probably the donkest play ever because you are not getting full value with your premium hand.

[SellingtheDrama]

Here's how I look at decisions like this (AA on a coordinated flop) - would my opponent move in on me with a hand of one-pair or less, given how I played my hand thus far?

If the answer is 'yes', then its a math problem against a fairly wide range (the most common one pair hand would be a combo with a draw)...and often is a call depending on how deep the stacks are.

If the answer is 'no' (they need at least two pair to shove), its a fold - you aren't likely getting the price you need to call.

These decisions are what makes NL both so sick and so much fun.

[jcl]

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I wouldn't want to make donk decisions simply b/c I know 2NLHE consists of a lot more donks than any other levels.

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Well believe it or not adapting to whoever is at the table is actually how you should be playing. This is also why what you learn here will be meaningless later, which is why people aren’t giving very serious responses. You can’t learn a set strategy of ‘fold AA on this board’ in isolation. If anything, I would say that, at 2NL, never folding AA isn’t that bad advice.

In any case, this seemed like a pretty thinly veiled brag post on the lines of ‘I correctly-folded-but-would-have-won-with-AA’ so that’s why I didn’t put too much effort into the first post.

If you really want to know, AA is a fairly simple fold in most situations on this type of flop because you’ll be well behind their range (behind set, straight and two pair, and flipping with straight flush draw, pair and straight draw, pair and flush draw, ahead of overpairs if they play it that badly and bluffs)

[maSkraP]

Thanks jcl. That's more of a response i was looking for. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[KenProspero]

Yuck.

If you have any respect at all for 5th and/or 1st fold. If not call. If you have no read on the players -- at this level, I probably assume fish until proven otherwise, so call.

[drewjustdrew]

I would say if this is the kind of player willing to put it all out there with TPNK, this is not the only time he will make this play. Wait for a better situation and you will get his money, if he lasts that long. You are playing behind him most hands, so enter pots he is in with more marginal holdings in an effort to outflop him. You don't have to win every pot, just make sure your money is good going into the big ones.

Analysis:
In this hand, you definitely couldn't be sure you have the odds to call, especially with the call by the first guy. While he is growing the pot, he is a potential additional drawer if not already ahead. You are now afraid of being behind a made hand already, or are bucking one or both hands with 2 clubs, with 2 spades, with a lone 4,5,6,7,8,9, or 10, and more distantly, one club in their hand for runner-runner. Remember, they are all-in, so you can't extract more money if your hand improves and you can't make them fold their draws.

Well played.