Being told "professional poker doesn't contribute to society."

[Jack Ruby]

Taxes don't contribute to society?
LMAO.

Can't think of something that is more fundamentally designed to promote society as a whole.

There clearly is a demand for poker competition.
What does it matter what medium entertainment is experienced?

Something has to be broadcast on TV or only desginated websites to be legitimate.

Millions of people want the opportunity to win money at poker. Millions of people want to watch a ball game. What difference does it make that they pay to go to the game where as whoever has better fortune,skill, etc gets paid at poker?

If they didn't like playing poker, well, they had a choice. Get rid of the top pro's, then the next level will become the top pro's.

All the people arguing poker doesn't contribute, well the market place pretty clearly shows that you are wrong. People want competition and opportunity.

When people say society would be better off without poker pro's... i would think the demand in the market place has a better since of what makes the world better off than your preconceptions.

[humdinger]

[ QUOTE ]
Even people who do not object to gambling because of moral or spiritual beliefs often come up with this one. Anyone have a good answer? Shouldn't you quit poker now and run off to become a doctor so that you can "contribute to society?"

Greenstein has obviously decided he doesn't contribute and has decided to give to charity, but I think pro poker contributes by itself -- it's just a little difficult to explain.

Give it a shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

If people tell you this, tell them they are correct.

hd

[6471849653]

If one pays like double taxes (in dollars) compared to the minimum salary or so (e.g. if the normal is at least 20% of $1000, one would has to make it 40% of $1000 or "20%" of $2000, earning more instead), one is contributing maybe enough. Other than that one would has to contribute.

One more is the money the poker sites take from us and the sites pay taxes from; that money is a contribution though it's not producing anything but it's as good. If the country is not taking that money that is its problem, not our problem. Gambling produces a lot of taxes and some works though the people who work there produce nothing, if not counting entertainment, that's what it is, and there is a need in people for such entertainment, so the people who work on the business do contribute, but the pros do not contribute as it's not necessary that anyone is a pro in this game.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
Taxes don't contribute to society?
LMAO.

Can't think of something that is more fundamentally designed to promote society as a whole.

[/ QUOTE ]

what it's designed to do and what it actually does are too different things.

you can argue that government spending is more efficient than consumer spending if you wish, but even if that's the case, the contribution to society is only the difference between the two, which is very small at best.

if the government is designed well, the efficiency of consumer spending and government spending is equal, so it shouldn't matter whether its the government or the consumer doing the spending. unfortunately most governments aren't particularly efficient.

[RiverPlay]

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting thread. Thanks for starting it Lyric. It's about time stuff like this comes up to the surface regarding the 'profession' poker!

I bet most of the guys playing poker for a living just whipe their thoughts of guilt under their mental carpet. If they are enough in tune with themselves to feel any at all. And yes, you should most probably feel a bit guilty since you in no way at all contribute to make the world a better place. And ultimately, I'm sure that's what we all would like to do if we dig deep inside.

Someone once compared a professional poker player to a drug dealer and to be honest, I don't think he was that far off. It went something like poker players sell a certain rush, some sort of dream of a better place for the losing player for a while, and then finally the 'pro' ends up with most of his money and the loser leaves feeling empty, discouraged and not feeling good about his losses. Sort of what you feel after doing some extacy, coke or another drug. Obviously not the same feeling but you get the point.

Poker players saying they contribute by spending more money are probably never in their lives going to get it anyway. And the guys saying they contribute by paying taxes I would refer to a former speaker comparing it to pay taxes from stealing. Poker is just an 'honest' form of stealing.

Then there are the guys like Barry G giving of his winnings to charity. Boy, imagine the guilt he feels inside for doing what he does. Making loads of money from other peoples misery is essentially what you do when playing poker for big money. And your plate is not going to be clean for giving a fraction of it to charity. Karma.
If anyone could argue against this, please do because I would be very pleased in learning such so that I could get my own weights of my shoulders.

I, for one, am not proud when saying I'm a professional poker player. But I just can't see a way out of it as long as I'm making the kind of money I do. Guilt or no guilt. I'm in awe to you people who actually feel you are doing something good or productive, but wow, you are experts at fooling yourselves!

P.S Stinkypete, how come you still play feeling the way about this that you seem to do?
And Raptor, are you some kind of hero for paying 44% of $2M yearly or whatever it is you make? Are you looking for a pat on the shoulder from fellow gamblers? Just think again and of the people you won that money from. Who is paying, them or you? Maybe, just maybe, you will wake up a little.

Peace out
/
J

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your claim is kind off sick. In this world is very hard to make profit without taking it from others. I think that gambling is in our very nature and it's better to gamble at a game than trying to get that feeling at other pesonal areas, so true this is that alomst every poker player can tell about how they learned frim the game to an exent that it can by applied to lots of things, some loose money doing it. We all loose money buying all this stuff society says we need, and thats a lot more sick than playing a gambling game the same way the did over the ages.

Barry G. is an example about how you use your money is much more important than how u make it in terms of the impact it has in society, when money comes from an honest source (like it is earning it at a table with a clear set of rules). The poker economy is very wealthy and he gives to impoverished people, a HUGE part of his winnings not because he finds himself guilty, but because he understands that he didnt came to these world just to acumulate wealth.
He doesn't makes misery by playing poker and it's simple logic, he takes from the wealthy people thats rewarded by society and gives to the people that's poor because there is an evil system thats very "productive", but doesn't think like him, and it's a lot more likely to produce misery than poker.

WTF are you doing playing poker while thinking like this???

Either think a way to make the money you are earning usefull for others, dedicate the free time that playing poker gives to some other thing (it doesn't have to be charity, just something you think is good, that creates joy in the world), or just change your way to make a living. I live in the third world and if I ever make more than 100K a year playing poker im sure i will help people a lot more than I would having the former job I had.

cheers

[Adebisi]

By and large, "society" is composed of idiots, a-holes, and douchebags. Why would I want to give anything to these people?

[HobbyHorse]

Stinkypete - define what you mean by "contribute". Define what you mean by "society". Without those definitions, you are arguing disingenuously.

Also, let me counter your splitting of hairs about the government with this analogy: For the sake of argument, let's say Barry G. can be considered as a pro poker player who contributes to society because he donates his money earned through poker endeavors to charitable causes. Now, let's say some organization that he's donated money to actually turns out to be a scam operation that has been using Barry G's donations to buy hookers and Porsches instead of feeding orphans. Does that mean then that Barry G is no longer contributing to society because his money is not being spent on a self-less cause (although that clearly was not his intent)?

Your argument against the government is illogical because it completely ignores the intent of the taxpayers. Most taxpayers pay taxes in good faith in the hope that the government will fix roads with it, develop social programs, build public schools etc. Whether or not the government actually does those things is (in most instances) beyond the control of most individuals. You cannot negate their good intent simply because the intended result does not always occur.

I think poker contributes to society as much as anything else can. Example: I want to win money consistently at poker. Winning consistently at poker requires patience. In order for me to win money at poker, I must learn to be patient. By learning how to be patient, I stop yelling at the delivery man when my pizza is late, I stop complaining when it takes 30 minutes to cash a check at the bank because the teller is slow, I no longer have road rage during rush hour. By not increasing the level of stress and anxiety of other people by yelling, complaining, having road rage, I contribute to society.

It's the little things that truly count, no?

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
Stinkypete - define what you mean by "contribute". Define what you mean by "society". Without those definitions, you are arguing disingenously.

[/ QUOTE ]

society is the people of the world as a whole.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, let me counter your splitting of hairs about the government with this analogy: For the sake of argument, let's say Barry G. can be considered as a pro poker player who contributes to society because he donates his money earned through poker endeavors to charitable causes. Now, let's say some organization that he's donated money to actually turns out to be a scam operation that has been using Barry G's donations to buy hookers and Porsches instead of feeding orphans. Does that mean then that Barry G is no longer contributing to society because his money is not being spent on a self-less cause (although that clearly was not his intent)?

[/ QUOTE ]

barry g's contribution is spreading wealth. there isn't really added value. it's possible, maybe even likely, that he spreads the money out more efficiently and society benefits as a whole, but that's a more complicated discussion than i'm going to get into.

[ QUOTE ]

Your argument against the government is illogical because it completely ignores the intent of the taxpayers. Most taxpayers pay taxes in good faith in the hope that the government will fix roads with it, develop social programs, etc. Whether or not the government actually does those things is (in most instances) beyond the control of most individuals. You cannot negate their good intent simply because the intended result does not always occur.


[/ QUOTE ]

good intent is not equal to productivity. paying taxes is hardly acting in good faith. it's simply abiding by the law.

[ QUOTE ]
I think poker contributes to society as much as anything else can. Example: I want to win money at poker. Winning money at poker requires patience. In order for me to win money at poker, I must learn to be patient. By learning how to be patient, I stop yelling at the delivery man when my pizza is late, I stop complaining when it takes 30 minutes to cash a check at the bank because the teller is slow, I no longer have road rage during rush hour. By not increasing the level of stress and anxiety of other people by yelling, complaining, having road rage, I contribute to society.

[/ QUOTE ]

or you could make the same contribution by simply not existing. that has the added benefit that you wouldn't be consuming any valuable resources.

[Thremp]

stinkypete,

What's your feelings on people creating value/utility by existence and interaction with other people? Separate from charitable causes. Like if I wake up each day with my trust fund and go and hang out and have a lot of casual sex. Do I contribute?

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
stinkypete,

What's your feelings on people creating value/utility by existence and interaction with other people? Separate from charitable causes. Like if I wake up each day with my trust fund and go and hang out and have a lot of casual sex. Do I contribute?

[/ QUOTE ]

i've said before in this thread that i think there's many ways a poker player can contribute. playing poker just isn't one of them.