Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows discussion thread (SPOILERS)

[Dilznoofus]

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My serious complaint throughout the entire series is the lack of detail that goes into describing magic in the books. Yes, it leaves much to your imagination, but what is this about Golden Fire randomly shooting out at Voldemort? What? More explanation than IT IS THE ANTI-VOLDY WAND. And the AK curse described as "flashing green light" got old, quickly.

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Interesting how we can all be fans of the same series and have such different priorities. I'm not a fantasy reader by any means, the only other story I've read from the genre being Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. I've never had the faintest curiosity about how the magic is supposed to work.

Edit: It's too late to edit my previous post, but when I said I really wanted to kill Bellatrix for torturing Hermione and wouldn't have felt the same way had it been Harry or Ron, I still would have wanted Bellatrix to die for doing it to Harry or Ron. I just wouldn't have been upset to the same degree.

[bobman0330]

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My serious complaint throughout the entire series is the lack of detail that goes into describing magic in the books. Yes, it leaves much to your imagination, but what is this about Golden Fire randomly shooting out at Voldemort? What? More explanation than IT IS THE ANTI-VOLDY WAND. And the AK curse described as "flashing green light" got old, quickly.

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Overemphasis on the exact mechanics of magic is what makes a lot of fantasy novels (and SF for that matter) not very good. It's not very interesting, and it's all completely made-up.

[rustyspeedy]

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Overemphasis on the exact mechanics of magic is what makes a lot of fantasy novels (and SF for that matter) not very good. It's not very interesting, and it's all completely made-up.

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Maybe the exact mechanics are not the most interesting thing, but I found them extremely interesting. However, I like things to follow logically. If you create a world with certain rules, I think you should follow those rules. That, and glimpses into a world with this kind of magic is what truly drew me in. Much like when Harry Potter was introduced to this realm in the first book, every reader also had a chance to enter it and learn about it as he did. That being said, when we go from that discovery phase into one where things just seem to 'happen', it just doesn't feel the same.

[RunDownHouse]

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Hermione uses non-verbal spells when they're sneaking into the Ministry.

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Really? I'll have to go back and look into it. Does anyone remember the spells specifically?

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I just finished re-reading the book, and they use non-verbal spells all the time. Specifically, at the Battle of Hogwarts, Hermione is running out the front, sees someone getting attacked (Hagrid, maybe?), and yells, "NO!" No other incantation or whatever is made, but she shoots off a spell anyways. Also, she uses Levicorpus in the vault at Gringotts, which is introduced in HBP as specifically non-verbal.

[Dilznoofus]

My Post-Potter Depression is really starting to set in.

[Oranzith]

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My serious complaint throughout the entire series is the lack of detail that goes into describing magic in the books. Yes, it leaves much to your imagination, but what is this about Golden Fire randomly shooting out at Voldemort? What? More explanation than IT IS THE ANTI-VOLDY WAND. And the AK curse described as "flashing green light" got old, quickly.

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Overemphasis on the exact mechanics of magic is what makes a lot of fantasy novels (and SF for that matter) not very good. It's not very interesting, and it's all completely made-up.

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Like any skill, there are varying degrees of excellency. Overemphasis is just as sure as sign of ineptitude as is underemphasis.

I too am pleased by a world that proceeds according to a set of rules. What the rules are dont matter, so long as everyone follows them. Unexplained happenings, or undetailed happenings, are bothersome.

For the "advanced" fanstasy reader it felt lacking. It is a minor gripe that doesn't deflect from the series on the whole, but a gripe nonetheless. Similarly, I found the 6th book MOST interesting because it really delved into the usage of the Snape's inventive magic - Sectumsempra was a fantastic spell

[CocoaKrispies]

What kind of bothered me in the last couple books was the "missing" of certain spells. It seemed like Harry & Co could dodge spells pretty easily, whereas the Death Eaters would get hit by most spells. You would think that Magic spells (especially nonverbal, which you would have no warning about) would be very difficult to dodge.

On the plus side, I've now re-read DH, and it's really enjoyable, especially the last few chapters. As was mentioned before, the Epilogue was a bit dissapointing, but the Prince's tale and Harry sacrificing himself were both very powerful chapters, as well as the final duel between Harry and Voldy (I think it will be better in the book than on film, on film will seem contrived). I was very happy with the conclusion to the story.

[CalledDownLight]

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I read the book a few years ago and saw the movie last year so forgive me if my exact details are a little off but here goes: When students are at Hogwarts they are relatively well protected. We know DD enchants the grounds and teachers are pretty vigilant. So how would Voldy get to Harry? When would Harry be randomly in a forest? Maybe visiting Hagrid but I believe that would be too big a risk considering Voldy was very weak.

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I dont understand. No matter what Voldemort's actions are the same. Harry is sent to him, he gets the blood, comes back, and lets someone else take care of the details.

I dont mean that Voldy would come and kill Harry in the forest. I just mean, port him to Voldy, kill him, then dump his body somewhere if I care that much about not being found out.

Again, its important to note, that its difficult to believe Harry dissapearing from the maze doenst set off the same bells and whistles to DD that some random death would, it not more. Because, keep in mind, DD built the maze and knows it is impossible for someone to dissapear from it. If someone dies, there is going to be a body in there.

DD neither built the maze nor knows that it is impossible for someone to disappear. The maze was a product of the comittee that ran the competition and was specifically designed so that no one could see inside the maze. DD would have no way of knowing what was happening or how Harry dies if it happened in the maze. Also, many people have said that Voldemort was risking that Harry would not win and that someone else would get to the portkey first. Realize that this isn't really practical since Moody (Crouch) was the only one that could see inside the maze, using his magical eye, and that he was guiding Harry through the maze while stopping the progress of the other competitors and even eliminating two completely. Furthermore, the AK curse leaves no traces so it would not be known that Voldemort was back.

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The tournament put Harry in a very dangerous position and exposed him and DD could do nothing about it because those were the rules. The tournament allowed Harry to be put in a spot where no one could help him.

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Can you kind of clarify this?

Are you saying that DD wouldnt be able to protect him in the maze? Because, if so, DD cant protect him anywhere. DD fails horribly in book 4, by allowing a death eater so much close time with Harry. Harry is compltely vulnerable to moody at all times throughout his 4th year at horwarts

While he was spending time with the death eater that was Moody he wasn't really ever in danger at Hogwarts aside from being in the Triwizrd Tournament. Moody was on the strictest of orders to watch Harry, but would have faced an almost certain death at the hands of Voldemort if he was stupid enough to blow his cover or even worse kill Harry.

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Your idea was to have Moody lure Harry into his room and then send Harry to Voldemort, but that would have immediately given away Moody was an imposter and given DD someone to interrogate. I guess Moody would have gone with Harry, but then DD would have found the real Moody and pieced together what happened.

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Think through what happens after the two plans.


Maze: Harry dissapears. DD knows this is impossible, since he and a few others built the maze as such. Thus, one of those few people must have made it possible. Interrogate them.

Random portkey: Harry dissapears; possibly found dumped somewhere, possibly not, whatever. Why does DD immediately 'know' its Moody? Did Harry send DD a message right before he stopped by Moody's office "Hey.. im going to be in Moody's office for the next 8 minutues; I just thought you should know in case he ports me out of here"?


Again DD doesn't know the working of the maze. Randomly having a portkey to Voldemort is not going to go unnoticed. If Harry is killed outside the tournament DD will immediately know that Voldemort is back because he is 100% sure that he will want to kill Harry himself.


To me, the best explanations for the enormously elaborate plan, are either:

1. Port keys somehow didnt work while not in the maze

obv not true as evidenced by the portkey at the quidditch world cup

or

2. That Harry was going to be ported back to the maze after he was killed (if this is true, then you can say that there is a good chance DD would just attribute it to the maze; if Harry dissapears within the maze, it seems logical to believe DD would be very suspicious)

this is pretty much what was supposed to go down until some [censored] backfired in the graveyard

Both would be very good explanations, but neither is all that supported by in book statements. If she wants us to connect the dots, thats cool; but she cant rely on us to draw our own dots.

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do you agree that using the tounry was one of the best and most effective ways?

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For plot purposes, it was awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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[CalledDownLight]

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I think the thought of an "unbeatable" wand was more of a myth than anything else. Think about it. Even in the fairy tale the wand fails to protect the oldest brother who eventually is killed anyways.

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The brother is killed after bragging about his wand not in a duel, but in his sleep. Its not gonna prtect you if its sitting beside your bed. Also, the book provides strong evidence that DD and Grindelwald weren't dueling to kill and thus DD had a chance to win the wand.

[Fast Food Knight]

1. Port keys somehow didnt work while not in the maze

obv not true as evidenced by the portkey at the quidditch world cup


No, we're saying the portkeys may not work under the protecting magical spells of Hogwarts, not that they ONLY work inside the maze.