Good spot for a second barrel?

cheburashka · #1 10-01-2007, 12:03 PM

Middle of a 4.4/180

I have been playing extremely tight (12/7) due to lack of cards. My image should be pretty nitty, as I’ve had to fold a couple of flops, and the only cards I’ve shown down have been TT, QQ, AK. Villain is moderate laggy (26/22/3), but has only showed down good cards.

UTG (21297 in chips)
MP (6340 in chips)
Hero (25418 in chips)
BU (18122 in chips)
SB (8888 in chips)
BB (19149 in chips)

Blinds are 300/600/50, Hero is CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Two folds, Hero raises 900 to 1500, two folds, BB calls 900

Flop (2400) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero bets 1800, BB calls 1800

Turn: (6000) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, Hero???

ssnyc · #2 10-01-2007, 12:05 PM

i used to keep barreling here but found myself gettting picked off too often...if he has a draw he's not folding and you may still have the best handcheck behind and play poker on the river

wizard · #3 10-01-2007, 03:19 PM

I'm done. This type of board has both draws and cards in the playing zone so I would expect a call and have little or no way of winning unless I push to fold a better or drawing hand. At this point in the tourney check is the way to go. The river will be a problem but if I miss and the draws miss, I'm probably laying it down to most anything but a mini bet.

cheburashka · #4 10-01-2007, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm done. This type of board has both draws and cards in the playing zone so I would expect a call and have little or no way of winning unless I push to fold a better or drawing hand. At this point in the tourney check is the way to go. The river will be a problem but if I miss and the draws miss, I'm probably laying it down to most anything but a mini bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you called it. River was a blank, 5c. Villain bets 900, Hero calls, villain shows 9s5s to win with a pair of fives. So the reason for my post was to see if it would have been worth firing a second barrel to get him off the flush draw.

Sherman · #5 10-01-2007, 06:34 PM

I actually think this is a great spot for a second barrel.

Your hand is virtually worthless because it is not likely to get to a showdown if you check the turn, it has few draws (maybe 3 As) so it doesn't mind getting check/raised, and it has little showdown value if you actually get there.

So, fire away with a bluff on the turn. The Q is a good card for you because if he had a middle pair and floated on the flop the additional overcard may be just what was needed to scare him off.

Also, players with these sorts of stats 26/22/3 tend to be aggressive and understand aggressive plays from others. His call c-bet % would be interesting to know if you have a few hands on it. On that same note, I just realized that players with a close VPIP and PFR are players I consider "dangerous". They are aggressive and are often those I target for re-steals. Just an FYI.

Sherman

ssnyc · #6 10-01-2007, 06:59 PM

Cheb...the problem is a villan who calls with 59 suited preflop will never fold a flush draw...if he pays to the river and completely blanks you have the best hand anyway...just don't see much success in bluffing bad players...learning to move to valuetown more and FP less

Sherman · #7 10-01-2007, 07:06 PM

I don't see any indications of this guy being a calling station. In fact, he might actually be a half-way decent player. His stats look an awful lot like mine. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

His river bet is pretty questionable though.

Coz · #8 10-01-2007, 08:15 PM

I think this is a bad spot for a second barrel. Your bet on the flop showed alot of strength, you were representing a K or something like A7. The fact that he called as opposed to raising you IMO means that he is not scared of very many turn cards. He could have called with something like KQs, KJs, QJs, AJs, 77, or 22 or a poorly played 88-TT. Either way I think you have very little FE on the turn and only two cards to come on the river which could possibly help you if you are not already drawing dead. If he checks river I would check behind as well, I don't think you can steal this pot.

Sherman · #9 10-01-2007, 08:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a bad spot for a second barrel. Your bet on the flop showed alot of strength, you were representing a K or something like A7. The fact that he called as opposed to raising you IMO means that he is not scared of very many turn cards. He could have called with something like KQs, KJs, QJs, AJs, 77, or 22 or a poorly played 88-TT. Either way I think you have very little FE on the turn and only two cards to come on the river which could possibly help you if you are not already drawing dead. If he checks river I would check behind as well, I don't think you can steal this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously folks. I am going to float the [censored] out of all of you and lead or check/raise every turn. Our villain in this hand is aggressive. Aggressive players understand c-bets and aggressive play. They also float...which may seem passive but aggressive players know it is an aggressive play.

Coz · #10 10-01-2007, 09:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a bad spot for a second barrel. Your bet on the flop showed alot of strength, you were representing a K or something like A7. The fact that he called as opposed to raising you IMO means that he is not scared of very many turn cards. He could have called with something like KQs, KJs, QJs, AJs, 77, or 22 or a poorly played 88-TT. Either way I think you have very little FE on the turn and only two cards to come on the river which could possibly help you if you are not already drawing dead. If he checks river I would check behind as well, I don't think you can steal this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously folks. I am going to float the [censored] out of all of you and lead or check/raise every turn. Our villain in this hand is aggressive. Aggressive players understand c-bets and aggressive play. They also float...which may seem passive but aggressive players know it is an aggressive play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that Sherman, but what I was thinking was that it was a dangerous flop to float, there are alot of turn cards that could come for villian that could possibly harm him on the turn. That Q being one of them which could have given us for all he knows a huge combo draw or two pair. I also took into account the fact that it was a 8 dollar rebuy tourney so most people don't understand pot odds let alone floating. When I was writing my reply I wrote two, one for and one against firing again, and as you can see the one against ended up winning. I have no problem in being wrong, and since you are one of the best posters in this forum, I hope you can show me exactly where I am wrong. For example, my question to you is say you are villian, what hands are you floating here? And I don't know whether you can or not, but describe a general situation where floating is a good play.

Thank you.