Kill button, act out of turn

[*TT*]

Killing time in an 8/16 1/2 kill game. This room's killer gets to act last unless there is a raise but I made an error.

middle position limps, I am next to act and raise - Im reminded by the dealer that I am acting out of turn so I take my chips back, everyone fold to the big blind who calls - so i decide to check instead of raise because if the BB knows I intend to raise yet still calls my hand just lost significant value.

The hand plays out to the end, I fold the turn and BB wins. Then the player to my right scolds the dealer for allowing me to not remain committed to the raise because I acted out of turn. It was a friendly discussion, nobody way upset, the floor ruled I should have been forced to raise even though the dealer said he has been in this situation before and all the other floors ruled that the action out of turn is not binding if there is significant action AFTER the killer's intentions are declared. I agreed with the dealers view because the BB has the advantage of knowing my intent, therefore i shouldn't be bound to a raise once he enters the pot (if he didn't enter the pot then I should of course be bound to a raise).

Tell me B&M forum, how would you rule?

[psandman]

Well if I get to make the rules, I don't find your action to be binding.

However in the room in which i deal the rule is that your action would be binding.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Well if I get to make the rules, I don't find your action to be binding.

However in the room in which i deal the rule is that your action would be binding.

[/ QUOTE ]

in this room it seems that the rule is not uniform, hence why I ask.

[NevadaKaz]

OP, I dont understand how you acted out of turn ?

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
OP, I dont understand how you acted out of turn ?

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe TT left out that he had the kill button. Thus normally action passes over him and he acts after the BB.

I believe in many rooms your raise would be binding. But the kill button silliness is confusing enough I'm not sure that's fair in this case. I play limit rarely, and limit with a kill more rarely, so I'd be highly prone to do the same thing. I think most folks who don't often play with a kill button would.

I'm ok with a decision either way. All I ask is consistency from ruling to ruling.

[RR]

You should not be bound to raise. If it is folded around to you, you should then be bound to raise. I also prefer the kill to act in turn rather than after the BB, but either way is find as long as the floor and dealer understand the question when it is asked (a tremondous number of places that use a kill believe the rest of the world does it exactly like they do when in fact there are a number of variations of the kill I am familiar with).

[TheChad]

OP Personally if I were floor, I'd let you off for the same reasons that you stated. If he had folded, I would hold you to it.

I think I would institute my rule at this place though:
If you act out of turn, whatever chips you bet are pushed into the pot and your cards are mucked. The reason I like this rule is that people are a lot more inclined to pay attention to whats going on so they don't lose money! :-)
I know, it's a wierd rule, but it's been working with some grand results.
my 2c

[growlers]

Multiple people folded and one person called after your mistaken early action - so I don't think your action should be binding.
I've been told by dealers and floor at Red Rock that if 3 people do some sort of action (even fold) or if someone raises that either of those events is considered "significant action".
What rooms have a 8-16 with 1/2 kill besides RR? Just curious.

[Don Olney]

Action was not changed by the B/B calling the Kill. Your out of turn action should have been made to stand.

Just like raising out of turn is binding as long as the action has not changed before it gets to you. So, if your in seat 5 and seat 2 is the B/B and you raise out of turn and seats three and four only call the B/B your raise stands BUT if seat 3 or 4 raises before you then your action is no longer binding.

Also, if the dealer challenges the floors decision or even tries to explain why he/she did what they did this is bad form. That should be done away from the table and not around the guest.

[punkass]

[ QUOTE ]
Action was not changed by the B/B calling the Kill. Your out of turn action should have been made to stand.

Just like raising out of turn is binding as long as the action has not changed before it gets to you. So, if your in seat 5 and seat 2 is the B/B and you raise out of turn and seats three and four only call the B/B your raise stands BUT if seat 3 or 4 raises before you then your action is no longer binding.

Also, if the dealer challenges the floors decision or even tries to explain why he/she did what they did this is bad form. That should be done away from the table and not around the guest.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's confusion between "action not changing" and "no significant action". "Action not changing" doesn't make much sense. Folding qualifies as action, and if there are 3 or more of them after your out of turn action, it is labeled as significant.