M2TR shortstacker illuminati thread

[illini43]

CHOO CHOO is unbanned??!!?!?!?!/!

[CalledDownLight]

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Cry me a river
Honestryan
Oakrdrzfan
Osh

Calleddownlight
Hklm8383
Oah(s)
Okerboy(1p)


I took some creative license with names, sorry.

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I approve of this message.

[threads13]

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This is something that I frankly don't understand.

We have guys on this site like pokey & Cry Me A River who make masterful posts again and again that diligent members can read, discuss and use to become skilled poker players.

And no one has a problem with that. In fact, that's exactly why we all come here. To improve our poker play.

But when it comes to short stack information, some people become down right paranoid.

Why are we afraid to help shorties improve their skills, but we bend over backward to help out full stackers?

It doesn't make sense. Either we help other players, or we don't. Either there are enough fish to feed us all, or there aren't.

To you guys who are paranoid and "hold back" in discussions of short stacking, let me ask you this:

Do you also hold back and not share everything you know in discussions of full stack poker? If that's true, would you ever pass along wrong strategy or information, so you can "keep your edge?"

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I speculate that a lot of people hold back information on "fullstack" poker. I imagine that a lot of people are especially fearful about shortstacking because it could take away such a large edge when you compare it to giving away the information of "fullstack" poker.

If everyone starts shortstacking then it changes the way the game plays immensely. I don't think we will see the minimum buy-in get any smaller and I also imagine that shortstacking will become more and more popular on the internet until "fullstack" poker becomes hard to come by. It would go along with the current tend of online poker.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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This is something that I frankly don't understand.

We have guys on this site like pokey & Cry Me A River who make masterful posts again and again that diligent members can read, discuss and use to become skilled poker players.

And no one has a problem with that. In fact, that's exactly why we all come here. To improve our poker play.

But when it comes to short stack information, some people become down right paranoid.

Why are we afraid to help shorties improve their skills, but we bend over backward to help out full stackers?

It doesn't make sense. Either we help other players, or we don't. Either there are enough fish to feed us all, or there aren't.

To you guys who are paranoid and "hold back" in discussions of short stacking, let me ask you this:

Do you also hold back and not share everything you know in discussions of full stack poker? If that's true, would you ever pass along wrong strategy or information, so you can "keep your edge?"

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good points

-yes, full stackers hold back IMO, but that is kind of a side issue

-I've held back for a long time because of what I'm afraid will happen to the games if everything is just out there. I'm beginning to think it would cause an influx of shortstackers that might force the sites to raise the min buyin. At least that would be my hope. But, I don't see any willingness of the sites to change the min buyin yet. We may just end up with games that have 75%+ shortstackers, which would really hurt the fullstackers potential ev.

Also, I'm surprised that some question the 5 figures. I could do it and I suck FFS. I mean, that is with the current environment and things change in the poker world all the time. But, right now, it's very possible and quite likely for anyone that takes the time.

Having seen all the fullring grinders out there, I'm amazed there are not more shorties. It's just as interesting to play as what the nits do. It pays as much if not more. It has less variance.




to get back to phydaux's point, I don't think I'm going to hold back any longer. I'm not the greatest at ss'ing, but I could definitely begin a much better discussion than anything posted here before. My other 'experiment' thread idea was to point out that it mainly is just paranoia. At least, that is the conclusion I've come to see. No one would pay to keep ss'ing info from hitting the boards. Some would pay to have it, but not that much. I'm thinking I'll post some of what I know while on vacation next week. I've already outlined 5 to 6 topics to begin the discussion.

[AceCR9]

I would have no problem with MT2R COACHING with some of his strategy, for those who want to pay for it. Just like everyone else.

but giving away info that will hurt games(for everyone)- just because most of us hate SS'ers, is beyond retarded.

like other higher stakes players I've spent a lot of time on poker, working to improve, putting in hands, etc. I made the effort, gave up other opportunities, and it has payed off.

While I may give small advice on hands on forums, there is no way I would ever write full out startegy and giving it away. I like money, and that last thing I want to see is the games get harder.

[phydaux]

So are we poker players, or just NL hold'em cash game players?

If tomorrow all the fish moved to limit London lowball, would we follow them or would we quit playing all together?

I don't know about you guys, but I don't expect the internet NL cash game craze to last forever. I fully expect that some day NL hold'em will die out and some other poker varient will take off. That's why I have a plan to eventually learn all the HORSE games, as well as HU limit hold'em.

Why are we so afraid of "ruining" NL cash games? Nothing is forever. You all talk about "adapting to game conditions." Well, freakin' adapt if shorties kill NL cash!

[AceCR9]

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This is something that I frankly don't understand.

We have guys on this site like pokey & Cry Me A River who make masterful posts again and again that diligent members can read, discuss and use to become skilled poker players.

And no one has a problem with that. In fact, that's exactly why we all come here. To improve our poker play.

But when it comes to short stack information, some people become down right paranoid.

Why are we afraid to help shorties improve their skills, but we bend over backward to help out full stackers?

It doesn't make sense. Either we help other players, or we don't. Either there are enough fish to feed us all, or there aren't.

To you guys who are paranoid and "hold back" in discussions of short stacking, let me ask you this:

Do you also hold back and not share everything you know in discussions of full stack poker? If that's true, would you ever pass along wrong strategy or information, so you can "keep your edge?"

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-yes, full stackers hold back IMO, but that is kind of a side issue



to get back to phydaux's point, I don't think I'm going to hold back any longer. I'm not the greatest at ss'ing, but I could definitely begin a much better discussion than anything posted here before. My other 'experiment' thread idea was to point out that it mainly is just paranoia. At least, that is the conclusion I've come to see. No one would pay to keep ss'ing info from hitting the boards. Some would pay to have it, but not that much. I'm thinking I'll post some of what I know while on vacation next week. I've already outlined 5 to 6 topics to begin the discussion.

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I seriously hope you get banned

btw if you post this, I will as a service to the community, spend time and explain how to exploit your strategy. I guarantee you I can, as I doubt there is anyone here who plays better vs SS'ers than I do.

[diebitter]

Wow, you guys are seriously overestimating the likely effects of this. imo.


This is getting silly. No one is getting banned for posting strat advice about FR games.

[Effen]

Shortstackers save me a lot of money for when I get in cooler situations as I lose 20 bbs instead of 100+.

Anyone here want to team up? IE if we're in a situation against a shortstacker we both call and check it down to bust him (unless we have a huge hand, trips+ ). Then just Stars transfer half the balance to the other guy.

I'm really big on spite.

[MyTurn2Raise]

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btw if you post this, I will as a service to the community, spend time and explain how to exploit your strategy. I guarantee you I can, as I doubt there is anyone here who plays better vs SS'ers than I do.

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I'd expect nothing less and would be excited to read it.
This forum is sometimes about moving poker knowledge forward and your counter-strats would be great toward that goal.

I do regret that you wish me banned for posting what I think is +ev advice on a gambling forum set up by a book publishing company that prints +ev gambling theory, strat, and tactics.