Trying to survive in a freeRoll

[mstram]

What are the odds of this happening ... and two hands in a row !!! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I actually "came back from the grave" twice before these two hands, both times all in with only ~1 or 2 BB left, but couldn't manage to pull off the third (and fourth) miracles [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Mike


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HAND #1
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Full Tilt Poker, NL Hold'em Tournament, 200/400 Blinds, 50 Ante, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP2: 24,121
CO: 15,475
BTN: 12,223
SB: 11,920
Hero (BB): 1,030
UTG: 810
UTG+1: 6,915
UTG+2: 3,524
MP1: 66,088

Pre-Flop: (1,050) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)

UTG folds, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to 800</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls 800, MP2 calls 800,

4 folds (including Hero)

*************AGHHHHHH NOO !!!!!!!!! **********************
Flop: (3,450) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
**********************************************

(3 Players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">MP1 bets 1,200</font>, MP2 folds, UTG+1 calls 1,200

Turn: (5,850) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">MP1 bets 5,850</font>, UTG+1 calls 4,865 and is All-In

River: (15,580) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: 15,580 Pot
UTG+1 showed K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Ace King high) and LOST (-6,915 NET)
MP1 showed 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Eights) and WON 15,580 (+8,665 NET)




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HAND #2
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Full Tilt Poker, NL Hold'em Tournament, 200/400 Blinds, 50 Ante, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP1: 23,271
MP2: 15,425
CO: 12,173
BTN: 11,670
Hero (SB): 580
BB: 760
UTG: 3,474
UTG+1: 74,753

Pre-Flop: (1,000) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)

4 folds (including Hero)

CO calls 400, 2 folds, BB checks

======== NOT AGAIN !!!! ==================

Flop: (1,400) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
=========================================

(2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">CO bets 400</font>, BB folds

Results: 1,400 Pot
CO mucked and WON 1,400 (+950 NET)

[Gonso]

What

good lord man, get your chips in there already

[mstram]

Well I guess getting two pair in two successive hands, isn't all that unusual, but I was getting crap all through the tourney, those two hands were two of the few hands ... if any, that I can even remember flopping two pair.

But to also catch them when I was near "the bitter end", as a bit annoying [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I guess it didn't really matter all that much at that point, my poor/in-experienced play earlier had already painted me into the corner anyway [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Mike

[mstram]

[ QUOTE ]
What

good lord man, get your chips in there already

[/ QUOTE ]

When (if ever .. always ??),would you normally play

Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ..... J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I hadn't been playing those two combinations at all.....maybe that's why I was so behind?

I guess what I am asking is there a different set of starting hands for FreeRolls / tournaments than ring games?

And do/should the starting hands change as the blinds increase ?

Mike

[Nichlemn]

*Always* play J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. It's lucky. Stay well away from J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] though...

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What

good lord man, get your chips in there already

[/ QUOTE ]

When (if ever .. always ??),would you normally play

Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ..... J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I hadn't been playing those two combinations at all.....maybe that's why I was so behind?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, those hands are terrible. However, unless you were about to be in the money, you should still have played them, because you had just posted about half of your stack each time in the blinds and antes. That means you get a huge discount to play, and there is a lot of dead money. Having a 1/5 chance to increase your stack by a factor of 8 is a great deal.

You may be overemphasizing surviving deep into the tournament with a tiny stack over accumulating chips. Noted poker player Amir Vahedi said, "In order to live, you must be willing to die." You need to be willing to risk busting out to accumulate chips.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess what I am asking is there a different set of starting hands for FreeRolls / tournaments than ring games?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but that's not really the issue here.

[ QUOTE ]

And do/should the starting hands change as the blinds increase ?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, they change. With deep stacks (75BB+), you usually want to play to have an informatioon advantage in big pots, so you favor hands like 76s which occasionally make monster hands over hands like ATo which often made good but not great hands. As stacks get shorter, you should aim for hands that make a good pair often, while speculative hands lose value. The reward of stealing the blinds relative to the risk of losing your stack changes as your stack gets even smaller, so you should aggressively attack the blinds when your stack is under 10 BB. You often won't get called, and your hand only needs to be ok against the types of hands that will call you, not against all hands. When your stack gets even smaller, limpers or even the big blind will be pot-committed against a raise, so you should push for value.

At no stack size do J2s and Q6o become good hands, but you are getting such a discount due to the blinds and antes that you should have played them.

[OziBattler]

if you are thinking you should have called preflop because you would have won then you are on a slippery slope and may imply that you need to work on some MTT/SNG fundamentals and how stacksizes matter.

if you are thinking you should have called/pushed preflop because your were megashortstacked and that it might be a +EV move then you should try and explain your reasoning.

[ QUOTE ]
At no stack size do J2s and Q6o become good hands, but you are getting such a discount due to the blinds and antes that you should have played them.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft

[xMars]

Q6, J2 come on fold that junk

[Rek]

[ QUOTE ]
Q6, J2 come on fold that junk

[/ QUOTE ]
They are junk and generally you want to fold I agree. However, desperate times require desperate measures. Blinds are 400 and he is super short stacked. He has posted the blinds and will soon blind out. There are occassions you need to shove ATC and these are examples of that.

[mstram]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Q6, J2 come on fold that junk

[/ QUOTE ]
They are junk and generally you want to fold I agree. However, desperate times require desperate measures. Blinds are 400 and he is super short stacked. He has posted the blinds and will soon blind out. There are occassions you need to shove ATC and these are examples of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

What starting hands does "desperate measures" translate to ? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Easy in hindsight to say that maybe I should have played those hands, but how "low" would you go?

Kinda hard to bluff anybody when you have a miniature stack [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Mike