another tipping question (sorry)

[Poshua]

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On the point of EV, I always assumed this was the reason for being a little more stingy with tips. It's hard enough to make money at poker. Once you factor in the rake and everything else, tipping can really eat into your profit. Interesting that not many people have mentioned tipping in that context.

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I guess. The rationale for tipping dealers is not EV maximization, so I don't think "It's -EV" is a compelling reason not to tip.

[AaronO]

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I guess. The rationale for tipping dealers is not EV maximization, so I don't think "It's -EV" is a compelling reason not to tip.

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True enough, but tipping certainly affects profit, so it seems like you could discuss the frequency and amount of tipping in terms of how it affects your expectations of profit.

[SDone]

I usually throw in a dollar for any pot. The most I've ever tipped was $10, and that was for a $500 pot, plus the dealer was really cool.

[pfapfap]

I tip too much. I know I tip too much. I know it eats into my profits. You know what else eats into my profits? Food. Shelter. Clothing. Entertainment. Mail-order brides. That kind of thing. I am a very lucky person to be born who I was when I was where I was, luckier than most anybody who has ever lived on this planet. I like to spread joy and wealth, and tipping is one way for me to do that. I don't view it as cutting into my profit, I view it as me spending my money in a way that directly benefits others (and not just the person I'm tipping at the time).

I want to make it clear that I, as a dealer, would never deliberately do anything against rules or protocol against a player that didn't tip. It's more along the lines of bav's post, but the person would have to be a real jerk in other ways (ie, holding up the game a lot, thereby reducing my tips from others... that's just total douchebaggery) for me to really do anything much differently than I do for everybody else. I'm a professional, and a buck here and there is not going to make or break me.

Nobody likes the non-tipper, not the dealers, not the other players. It might not be the tipping that bugs others, as the vast majority of the time the non-tippers are annoying in many other ways, usually holding up the game often and violating etiquette. Not blatantly and I'm sure not deliberately, it's just a part of their personalities. They most of them also seem very insecure, based on how they talk and hold themselves at the table. They're mostly losing players, too.

I'm not saying everybody that doesn't tip is like that, just sayin' that most of 'em are, at least in my experience in my room during my shift. So if you're not tipping, the issue isn't really the tip, the issue is what is running deeper inside of you that this comes out as a symptom.

That said, there are a few people I know who don't tip or rarely tip but that I don't mind in the slightest. They are all props, and they all help run the game and keep things going smoothly and are friendly and helpful and express their appreciation to me in other ways. Only one or two of them have been real jerks about it. Quick action, non-nittiness, and a smile go a long way.

FWIW, the one ranked pro I deal to (that I know about) always tips, in addition to being helpful and friendly and good for the game in every other way. Granted, this is hardly statistically significant, but just something to consider.

[Torello]

I have a problem that sometimes I forget to tip. My usual tipping process involves a $1 chip being my card protector and going to the dealer with my winning cards (sometimes accompanied by 1 or 2 more if it's a big pot). But sometimes (usually if I don't have a $1 in my stack) and there's a showdown where I'm not sure if I'm going to win or not, I get distracted and forget, I'm a very absent minded person.

Unfortunately the forgets usually happen in big pots with marginal wins... the hands that would most call for an above average tip, if I'm showing down the nuts I'm not going to forget. Sometimes I remember later, or try to remember and am not sure and just toss 1 a little later. But I'm sure I've pulled some big pots and unintentionally stiffed before. I'm not really sure what to do about the situation, other than increase the rate of tipping 2-3 instead of 1 on big pots to make up for it over time. I've never noticed a dealer being unpleasant to me.

[GurneyHalleck]

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2) As the pots get larger, tip on up to $20 (Usually only on 1000+ pots. This would not be uncommon in the 1-2 games in Tunica as cash plays and the games are usually uncapped.) The upside rule is that I almost never tip over 25 no matter how large the pot. The funny thing is, most dealers don't worry about it. If you just took down a 3k pot and they only get 20 bucks, they still feel like you took care of them...

I don't do this because I'm a nice guy. Dealers who respect you will make you a lot of money. They will steer you to good games, soft play you when they are propping, tell you about good and bad players in the room, and let you know which cocktail staff are available (just kidding!)

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More power to you if you want to tip several dollars a pot; you're a nice guy and I'm sure the dealers appreciate it very much. However, there's no way this is a +EV decision for you; whatever extra money you make because the staff likes you is absolutely getting swamped by the extra you're spending on tips.

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I would say that we will have to politely disagree on this. My key point is to make sure that you should tip a dollar per hand no matter what. That will get you a great deal of respect and cost you little. As to whether tipping slightly more is truly +EV I would concede that it is probably break even, but honestly the extra 6-8 dollars per hour I spend in tips I truly believe can be returned to you in many ways in a poker room...

On a side note, if you regularly play in a 100+ table room or play in a room where the dealers pool their tips with table gaming (St. Louis, anyone?) you will unfortunately gain little...

[oatmeal769]

I play 3/6 and 4/8 in LA. I figure a good wage for a 'career' job considering most of them don't have benefits, etc. is about $25 - $30 an hour. Coincidentally, this is about how many hands a dealer deals, (20 - 40 / HR) so I've been told.
I tip $ 1 on any pot I drag, regardless of size. If it's HUGE I might tip 2 or 3, but I think any dealer will say he'd rather make a little off every hand rather than a bunch off a few big ones. I just look at it as part of the drop, I've worked as a tipped employee most of my life, and know how important it is.

[pfapfap]

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I have a problem that sometimes I forget to tip.

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I don't play in cardrooms very often, but I have dealt for almost two years (yipes, it's been that long?)... I played this morning and forgot to toke about three times (and once had to go to the next table to make up for it). If you usually tip, don't worry, no negative thoughts are being floated your way. I know who the nice and good players are, and if they miss a pot or two, I don't sweat it. Feel free to find a dealer later and ask about it (tho' I almost always say "yes" when asked if I was toked, because I frankly don't remember and I don't want to hustle).