México has a president

[Enrique]

[ QUOTE ]
It would stop 98%+ of illegal immigration from the southern border. Which is a good start.

[/ QUOTE ]
Where do you get this number. It is a ridiculous number.

[ QUOTE ]
I live in Texas. When a car of 4 hispanics in an old beat up car hits you and runs....then the odds are about 98% that they are illegals. I concede there is a 2% chance they were not illegals

[/ QUOTE ]

Again using ridiculous numbers. If you use ridiculous numbers, let me use ridiculous numbers too then. There was a 2% chance of them being illegals, there was a 60% of them being sons of illegals born in America and there was an 18% of them being residents, a 15% of them having legal papers (VISA) and a 5% chance of them not being hispanic.

[ QUOTE ]
..... I would suggest you save your defense lawyer arguments for the courtroom. They are not persuasive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not trying to defend the cut and runners. I am trying to show that they might not be illegals. Maybe they were legal residents or Americans.

[ QUOTE ]
It is not a human right for Mexicans to break US immigration laws. Mexican politicians are pretty stupid. Their draconian immigration laws against American don't win them any friends north of the border. if they were smart, there would liberalize their immigration laws towards Americans. First they could use this as a public relations campaign to persuade the USA and second not too many Americans would immigrate to Mexico anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, it is not a human right they defend. But you totally missed my point. I wasn't trying to defend Mexico's laws on immigration. I think they are bad laws. I was trying to say that the fact that they have bad laws is not an argument for the USA to put bad laws into place too.
I guess I don't write clearly.

[ QUOTE ]
You need to face facts. America's view towards illegals are changing from one of respect to anger. Illegals have been abusing American hospitality. They have abused the American welfare system, welched on doctor bills, and interfered in the American political system.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right that America's views on illegals has been changing. Most of the illegals come and work and send their money to their families in Mexico. Most of them do not come with their family. And a big chunk of them are afraid of using America's public health system and all of that, because they are afraid of being caught.
The system is mostly exploited by citizens and residents (and immigrants with VISAs) NOT by illegal immigration.
Illegal immigrants are too afraid to use the services (fear of deportation) and most of them have their families back in Mexico.

[ QUOTE ]
There are bills in congress which are authorizing an additional 500+ miles of border fences. These fences will be built strategically so force illegals to take very dangerous routes, taking boats, or just giving up.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, there are bills asking for those things. I don't think Congress will pass them soon. It is too expensive and it doesn't really stop immigration (definitely not 98% as you say). There is too much support for immigrants right now in America for those bills to pass.

[ QUOTE ]
Mexico has been quite disrespectful towards Americans and unless they get smart, they will see a 3000 mile berlin wall along their northern border.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know exactly what you mean by this. If you mean Mexico's government, then you are wrong. If you mean the population of Mexico, then its to hard to tell what the population has done to America. If you mean illegal Mexicans in America, then I don't think they have disrespected America. If you mean Mexicans who turn into Americans, again I don't think they have disrespected America. If you mean Mexicans with VISAs to work in America and using the health care and other stuff, then they might have abused something (although every American does in a way as well), but I don't see the disrespect.

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I hope they continue their stupidity so that the 3000 mile wall gets built.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry that you think that way.

Whenever I say "I hope", I usually hope good things for the world, not bad things. I hope people can coexist better. I hope no more wars happen. I hope we can respect each other. Hoping for separation or isolation is not something I use when using the words "I hope".

[Felix_Nietzsche]

[ QUOTE ]
Where do you get this number. It is a ridiculous number.

[/ QUOTE ]
An estimate from history. Perhaps you have not heard but there was a war called WW2. After the war, the USSR built a barrier around Berlin to keep people from fleeing. It was quite effective. The 2% is an estimate of illegals that succesfully tunnel under or successfully avoid the US Coast Guard. Feel free to offer your own numbers and support them with historical examples...

[ QUOTE ]
I am trying to show that they might not be illegals. Maybe they were legal residents or Americans. (the hit-and-run accident)


[/ QUOTE ]
I conceded there was a 2% chance they might have been legal. I think the 2% is a rather generous number. You can play your defense attorney games and play devil's advocate. Doesn't matter to me. The fact is most Americans in border states would agree these 4 men were probably illegals. What you think won't persuade me or others for that matter.

[ QUOTE ]
It is too expensive and it doesn't really stop immigration (definitely not 98% as you say). There is too much support for immigrants right now in America for those bills to pass.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow! This statement proves to me your reason are 100% emotional and 0% logical.
1. The wall will cost a few billion which is CHEAPER than the cost of housing prisoners, deportations, and the millions of lost revenue from illegalswelching on their hospital bills. The county hospital for Dallas sent a bill to the Mexican Govt for $22 million for unpaid bills. The Mexican govt won't pay but it illustrates the abuse by illegals just in the city of Dallas.
2. Polls have shown that the majority of Americans want a clampdown on immigration. The US Senate tried to axe the House Bill but public anger at the Senate forced them to backdown.
Friend.....your living in a dream world.

[ QUOTE ]
And a big chunk of them are afraid of using America's public health system and all of that, because they are afraid of being caught.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not true. I already cited the abuse in Dallas. In California they have closed a dozen+ emergency room in southern California.

[ QUOTE ]
If you mean illegal Mexicans in America, then I don't think they have disrespected America.

[/ QUOTE ]
1. They have disrespected the American healthcare system by using services and not paying their bills.
2. Illegals disrespected the USA bye engaging actively in the American politcal system. Some fool cities like San Francisco even let illegals vote.
3. Hit-and-run accidents. (This can be proven by math. Insurance actuaries charge more for unisured accidents in border states).
4. Criminal activity (I do expect some crime but there are FAR too many illegals in US prisons...25% is the figure I heard).
I don't fault them for breaking US immigration laws because if I lived in Mexico I would do the same thing. But I do fault illegals for primarily for meddling in US politics. E.g. Publically demonstrating against 287 in California.