Second pair and nut flush draw OOP

[Hollywade]

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admittedly the difference between 2.5 and 3bb is small at 20/40

but still you're raising over 3bb with a weak hand OOP

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Why is this turning into "don't play KJs in early position?" I'm really not interested in a starting hand chart in this case. I know that playing KJs up front is a questionable play. I knew that when I did it. However, I am confident enough in my postflop play not to get in serious trouble. OK guys, I get it. Let's move on.

To me, the flop, turn, and river are the interesting parts of this hand. Can't we just talk about that?

[TheFoxNL]

PF is fine
flop is fine
turn i bet 600 but a check is fine
then shove any river

if you feel villian is getting frustrated with you and wants to get back at you hes more likely to draw to the flush

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

I don't love/hate the prf raise, but if you're gonna come in, might as well be raising.

Flop bet is fine. I probably make it 250 or the pot. Make it a stiff bet. After he calls the flop I'm slowing down and c/c. His river bet just stinks like a suck bet. Since you think he kind of sucks, he either hit his AJ and he's too dumb to have re-raised the flop, or he's got a bad ace. I'm weakly folding the river.

[Pokerfarian]

Id probably check turn because people never fold Aces there & they don't call with worse so I don't see enough of a reason to bet.
River I'd definitely check/fold he's bluffing almost never there, either very thin value with a decent Ace or betting Aces up most of the time.
Preflop is fine. You can fold KJs there. You can raise it there. If your going to raise 3x at this level is obviously fine & standard.

[jonnyd]

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admittedly the difference between 2.5 and 3bb is small at 20/40

but still you're raising over 3bb with a weak hand OOP

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Why is this turning into "don't play KJs in early position?" I'm really not interested in a starting hand chart in this case. I know that playing KJs up front is a questionable play. I knew that when I did it. However, I am confident enough in my postflop play not to get in serious trouble. OK guys, I get it. Let's move on.

To me, the flop, turn, and river are the interesting parts of this hand. Can't we just talk about that?

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you realize that preflop mistakes get you into the more awkward postflop spots though.

and also you're so confident in your postflop play yet you butchered this hand after the flop

people were nitpicking my preflop comments but said nothing about my postflop comments.. so what's the problem?

[ssnyc]

looks ok...if you can control the pot size I can live with it...

[Hollywade]

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and also you're so confident in your postflop play yet you butchered this hand after the flop


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I was ahead the whole way, I won the pot, and I never put a dime in the pot with the worst of it. If that's butchering, then welcome to the meat market.

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you realize that preflop mistakes get you into the more awkward postflop spots though.


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Yes, of course I realize this. However, I also realize that being an uber-nit has won me zero tournaments. Therefore, I'm trying to open up my game a little bit.

Also, I don't think it's bad to be in "awkward" positions after the flop. It's good practice. If I can learn to handle these awkward spots, I think it's only going to help my results.

[jonnyd]

lol @ being results oriented.

im far from a nit but i've also realized that ADVISING people to open wider and putting them in unfamiliar (read: uncomfortable) situations is not the best way to give advice.

so you'll have to forgive me assuming that youre the typical SSMTT poster and im going to tell you to raise less if you even raise at all.

betting more on the flop/turn help define villains hand more/charge draws. also it creates a bigger pot for the villain to bluff at on the river as played.

im trying to say this isnt an awkward spot, and the river call is completely standard because of the bet size.

being an uber-nit is one thing. but being spewy will win you even less tournaments.

[Hollywade]

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betting more on the flop/turn help define villains hand more/charge draws. also it creates a bigger pot for the villain to bluff at on the river as played.


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This is what I'm looking for. Thank you, sir.

By the way, are you saying that it's a good thing that the pot is big on the river? I assume you mean that a big pot is going to encourage the guy to bluff more frequently on the river. I agree that this is good. He doesn't want to give up on a pot he has invested so much in.

However, along the same lines, with a bigger pot, the bluff is going to be bigger relative to my stack. That's going to make it a scary call for me.

[pokerg1]

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PF is fine
flop is fine
turn i bet 600 but a check is fine
then shove any river

if you feel villian is getting frustrated with you and wants to get back at you hes more likely to draw to the flush

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play strong cards and cripple him again