NLTRN: Raising range vs. pre-flop limpers

[Somekid]

Vinetou, I agree completely. My problem is that when I try to open up my raising range against these players, they float me a lot in position and also slowplay their big hands, so I have no idea what to do when I miss flops. check/folding seems pretty weak a lot of the time. And just checking most of the time OOP pre-flop seems too weak, as it lets them get away with limping things like 53o, etc.

Also, I mostly have this problem with very deep stacks. When stacks are more shallow like <17 BB or so, I'm probably going to be getting AI on the flop the times I do raise (and raising limpers OOP less).

EDIT: Changed 3-bet to raising limpers at the end...no idea why I put 3-bet.

[Vinetou]

OK, so I wasn't out of line. The same problem with me. You were talking about 3betting in your last post - isn't this thread about raising the limpers? 3betting is a total different beast.

[Somekid]

Yeah, sorry about that, that was a typo, I'll fix it. I meant to say raising a limper.

[Collin Moshman]

My range against a guy who is not limping super-narrow is much wider, essentially any hand that has any post-flop potential for when I'm called. Against a chronic limper who has any chance of folding to an OOP raise, I'll pop it as wide as:

45o+
34s+
57o+
69o+
7Jo+
Q2s+
Q5o+
22+
K2+

Risking 3 BB to win 2 BB gives you a good immediate investment on the steal, and your c-bet will often take it when you miss after showing strength pre-flop.

The time to tighten and raise limps strictly for value, IMO, is when your opponent is very loose (passive or aggro) and will rarely fold to a normal raise.

-- Collin