2P Blind spots

[SA125]

Here's two hands from today that I'd like quick check up's on. Live full 15-30.

Hand #1 - Folded to agro laggy type who o/r's in CO. I call in SB with J9o, passive beginner in BB calls.

Flop KJ9r. I ch, BB bets, lag raises, I 3 bet, BB folds, laggy calls.

Turn brick bet, call.

River brick ch/ch.

I plead nolo contendre on river to those who say bet. No prob. Looking for thoughts up to then.

Hand #2 - Same laggy from hand #1 o/r's in CO, way over agro lag calls the BN, laggy agro SB calls, I call BB with K9o.

Flop KJ9r. I bet planning to 3 bet. Laggy folds, over laggy BN raises and SB 3 bets.

SB thinks he's tricky and might smooth call pf with JJ. His range is KJ, K9, JJ, J9, 99, QT. That's it.

Your move.

All comments welcome. Blind play is, as always, crucial.

[private joker]

Hand 1 -- I'd 3-bet or fold PF. Play this heads up or don't play it. Flop and turn are standard.

Hand 2 -- cap that chit.

[surfdoc]

Hand 1 I usually fold preflop. Not betting the river is criminal unless he is a bet when checked to type.

Hand 2: I don't agree with Joker. I think a your equity will change hugely on the turn and button won't fold. Lets raise a safe turn amd put button in a tough spot.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd 3-bet or fold PF. Play this heads up or don't play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting. Have to admit, considering it would only be 3 way with BB in, it's not a line I'd take with J9o. Wonder if others agree that's the play.

Also wonder if capping hand 2 will be the consensus. His range means I'm crushed by most of them.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 I usually fold preflop. Not betting the river is criminal unless he is a bet when checked to type.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I love about the forum. Two responses - one says 3 bet and the other fold. Gets you to thinking. Against an EP-MP tight raiser it's an easy fold. In this spot against this type I have to believe I can play this hand for +EV. Maybe I'm wrong.

As for river ch, I agree it's criminal. But I know you play live a lot too surf. This was one of those spots where live play gets wierd.

I play with him a lot. Watching him on the turn I knew I was beat. Since I'm tight he'd be afraid of QT or 2P. Since he didn't raise the turn I knew it wasn't a set. Had to be KJ. Sick stupid read. Still no excuse for river ch, but read was on. Live play gets weird sometimes.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]


That's what I love about the forum. Two responses - one says 3 bet and the other fold. Gets you to thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I would 3-bet. I said 3-bet OR FOLD. And I would choose fold. But if you want to play the hand, 3-betting has a lot of advantages over calling.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
SB thinks he's tricky and might smooth call pf with JJ. His range is KJ, K9, JJ, J9, 99, QT. That's it.


[/ QUOTE ]

How can he have JJ, but not AA/ KK as well. Or for that matter AK/ possibly KQ.

Since button won't fold pair + gutter on flop, u should wait till turn to raise.

As for hand #1, i would fold regardless PF, but it's less bad if it's a 2/3 structure. Were u planning on c/ring river, in which case, i might like it more, please don't tell me u were c/cing it.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


That's what I love about the forum. Two responses - one says 3 bet and the other fold. Gets you to thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I would 3-bet. I said 3-bet OR FOLD. And I would choose fold. But if you want to play the hand, 3-betting has a lot of advantages over calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

While the standard 3 bet or fold mantra prevails in most circumstances, the loose bad player in the big blind padding the pot and keeping the LAGs actions a little cleaner can sometimes be a reason to just call. That being said, I just don't like your chances here with the worst position and Jack high. If the initial stealer was a little tighter, and knew how to release a hand than maybe an occasional 3 bet would be okay. Just muck it.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 I usually fold preflop. Not betting the river is criminal unless he is a bet when checked to type.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I love about the forum. Two responses - one says 3 bet and the other fold. Gets you to thinking. Against an EP-MP tight raiser it's an easy fold. In this spot against this type I have to believe I can play this hand for +EV. Maybe I'm wrong.

As for river ch, I agree it's criminal. But I know you play live a lot too surf. This was one of those spots where live play gets wierd.

I play with him a lot. Watching him on the turn I knew I was beat. Since I'm tight he'd be afraid of QT or 2P. Since he didn't raise the turn I knew it wasn't a set. Had to be KJ. Sick stupid read. Still no excuse for river ch, but read was on. Live play gets weird sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand your argument that sometimes you have a feelimg at the table that you can't express while typing up a post on the forum. That being said, I think maybe your read needs a little adjustment if a guy you descibed as LAGGY checked through the river with top 2.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
How can he have JJ, but not AA/ KK as well. Or for that matter AK/ possibly KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's a known player and he does sometimes smooth call with JJ but never would with AA-KK, and he'd never 3 bet a co-ordinated flop like that with just TP. My range is accurate.

[ QUOTE ]
As for hand #1, i would fold regardless PF, but it's less bad if it's a 2/3 structure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad I posted this because I'm really, really surprised at all the fold responses. I fold my blinds a lot, but I've always considered J9o to be playable in blind steal/battles. Have to re-think that.

Hand 2 is where I thought there'd be fold responses and I'm surprised there weren't. Glad I posted that too because I guess I messed up. We had the same hand with K9o. That and J9o were the only two reasons to continue and, with one being a chop, I didn't see the sense in it. I'm crushed by KJ, JJ, 99 and QT. Oh well.

Tx for the responses.