The Commerce, some turn action

Sailboats · #1 05-12-2007, 04:54 PM

Decent 20/40 Commerce game. A mix of different players and at this point in time the game seems a bit loose. The Villian in this hand is tight/straight forward. She table changed to another table earlier, but now is back for more.

Preflop:
Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Every limps to Villian who raises on the button
Villian would not raise here unless with a premium hand
About 6 to the flop

Flop:
7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 10[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Check to Villian who bets, 4 call

Turn:
Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checked to Hero?

jba · #2 05-12-2007, 04:58 PM

pretty easy bet imo.

Sailboats · #3 05-12-2007, 05:03 PM

Well i felt the same way and bet. Then she raised me... whats the plan now?

mr pink · #4 05-12-2007, 05:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well i felt the same way and bet. Then she raised me... whats the plan now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have raised pf first time around. i don't get whats hard about the turn... call. 3betting and folding both suck obv

Sailboats · #5 05-12-2007, 05:20 PM

I was just wondering if C/C was better since i my only live out may be a 9.

Although my thought process are a little tainted since i already know she will raise on the turn.

Sqred · #6 05-12-2007, 07:47 PM

I like your bet here specifically because I would expect a raise from the villian. You were able to put maximum amount of pressure on the other two players who have yet to show any strength by enlisting the villian to help protect your hand. If you check and she gets checkraised on the continuation you pretty much cant call. By leading you protect your hand very well and can fold if it gets back to you three bet.

mr pink · #7 05-12-2007, 10:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was just wondering if C/C was better since i my only live out may be a 9.

Although my thought process are a little tainted since i already know she will raise on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

betting the turn is good because you likely have the best hand but its weak and there are a ton of draws out on that board that you need to protect against if you're ahead.

also, i dunno how the commerce plays but on the east coast, you'll find a lot of villains who won't raise your turn donk w/out 2pair or better - i suspect this is unlikely at commerce. sounds like you ran into a set this time around and it sucks to put in 2 bets in on the turn when you're toast but bottom line is that turn has to be bet.

private joker · #8 05-12-2007, 10:49 PM

I disagree with everyone. This turn is a check. We don't want to get raised here because it always means we're beat, and since we have so many outs it's much better to check and keep customers in if we hit those outs -- as opposed to letting villain shut out the field and reduce the dead money. I don't know why you guys think the Q means we all of a sudden have the best hand. Villain can only be holding AK or JJ for that to be the case, when there are more combos of AA/KK/AQ that beat us. If villain has JJ then she has 1 out. If she has AK then we give her a free card; meh. That problem doesn't outweigh the problems caused by betting. (Also, plenty of ladies at the Commerce 20 that fit the description in the OP won't be c-betting AK into 5 players on that flop, which increases the likelihood that the Q didn't help us that much).

brettbrettr · #9 05-12-2007, 11:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with everyone except Private Joker

[/ QUOTE ]

mr pink · #10 05-13-2007, 09:48 AM

you would probably know better than I would, but how often do you think we get raised here by the lady descibed w/ just an overpair? I doubt its that often as that board is pretty ugly for AA and KK against such a large field. you're not just giving a free card to AK but the 3 other people who called the flop. 7x, 8x, Tx, + AK, and god knows what else is out there. the pot is way too big to let a free one slide off on the chance that she has AK imo. also it's only 21 to 17 against for her holding AA, KK, QQ, and AQ vs. AK and JJ so it's a little worse than 50/50 based purely on hand combos (i agree that this is probably worse off given that she bet the flop)

at the end of the day, I'd rather risk a BB on the off chance I get raised here rather than let some clown with 86o spike a free 8 on the river and scoop.