call or 3 bet

[mr.sato]

vilan bb me sb one limper in co, live 8/16 kill
vilan know as an ok player with alot of leaks only plays his cards
flop 3 way
I have QdJd
flop is 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

i bet vilan calls co folds heads up
turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
i bet vilan raises whats the best play

[private joker]

What was the preflop action? If you raised from the SB (which you should have, given QJs and only one limper in the CO), then we can give BB credit for a better hand, even AK. If you merely completed, then BB shouldn't have you beat here unless he has 33 or K9.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

There are 32 combinations of 98 and K9, along with 3 combinations of pocket 3's. So thats 35 combos youre losing too. There are 6 combos of QT, 6 combos of JT, 6 combos of Q3, 6 combos of J3 and 9 combos of T3 totaling 33 combinations of hands youre ahead of. So based on this simple analysis you are a slight underdog, 35:33. This means you should just call down. Also even if you were a slight favorite It will usually be best to call down becuz you will be getting capped every time the villain has K9 and somtimes when he has 98, but only called when you have the best hand.

Also if we assume the villain is only raising the turn with a hand that was helped by the jack then you are even in worse shape. You will now be an 8:3 underdog and have nothing more than a crying call down.

So basically in order for you to 3bet this turn you need to be against a villain that has a wider turn raising range than I mentioned. Many one pair type hands or draws need to be included in his range before you can consider 3betting.

[mr.sato]

why would you raise out of the sb and especially out of position??

[mr pink]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you raise out of the sb and especially out of position??

[/ QUOTE ]

for a few reasons... your hand is probably better than a late position limper's in general. getting it heads up w/ some dead money and a hand that plays well on various flops is a good thing. you gain the initiative postflop, as in if the flop comes Axx and you bet, he'll probably fold almost all nonpair hands w/out a draw. even if the bb comes along, taking QJs to the flop 3ways is still good b/c it plays well multiway as well and has potential for flopping a monster draw, etc... lots of good stuff can come from raising here. you should open your range up if you've been routinely calling here. hands like small/mid pocketpairs, Ax suited and highcards (suited or not) go up in a lot of value if when in this situation.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you raise out of the sb and especially out of position??

[/ QUOTE ]

You may want to spend some time playing shorthanded online and reading the shorthanded forums. Besides simple things like having the best hand it is important to realize that when playing pots vs 1 or two opponents, the flop will miss everyone a good percentage of the time. Having the initiative will often lead to you winning uncontested on the flop. This is something so simple yet the majority of the loose passive bad Oceans 8/16 players still don't get.

[benwood]

I don't like your hand well enough to 3-bet the turn.I would call,planning to bet the river unless a card comes that may complete a straight.He may be raising with a pair & a draw,hoping for a free show-down if he misses his draw.

If he raises my river bet,I would call.

[chessrabbit]

Nice Post.

[dcb777]

call turn and obviously raise an improved river. There are too many combos which 4 bet you on the turn to 3 bet so just call down and raise the river if you fill up.

[mr.sato]

Thanks for the comments guys [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]