Live 6/12, A9s - keep betting the draw?

jesse8888 · #1 09-06-2007, 04:52 PM

Only been at the table for 30 minutes, so specific reads are questionable at best. The table is definitely WAY too loose preflop, and I haven't spotted a single player I'm worried about.

4 limpers and I raise A9d in the CO. BB calls, as do all the limpers of course.

6 handed, 12 small bets:

8d 3d 8c

Checked to me and I bet for value. Three players call. One is very, very loose and has ATC, one is logical but could have close to ATC, and the other just sat down.

4h, now 8 big bets

Checked to me and I (???)

1. Keep betting! You're a TAG, aren't you?
2. Take the free card. They're offering it so generously!

KitCloudkicker · #2 09-06-2007, 05:00 PM

dont bet. you're gonna hate yourself if you get check raised by an 8.

W. Deranged · #3 09-06-2007, 05:03 PM

Take the free card. Consider:

1. You aren't going to win unimproved that often here, so two of the main reasons to bet (i. hand protection and ii. the ability to showdown the river for free) are mitigated here. If you held AdKd, there would be considerably more reason to raise here. (Get it?)

2. In a live game, with a paired board, and that and that many callers, you are very likely to get check-raised by trips.

3. There aren't enough players in the pot to generate a situation where you are nearly breakeven on your equity even when behind.

So this is a pretty standard check in my opinion.

jesse8888 · #4 09-06-2007, 05:06 PM

Yeah, it's a pretty standard check if you have half a brain, which apparently I was lacking at the tables last night. Thanks for confirming.

Fnord · #5 09-06-2007, 05:14 PM

Easy bet. If someone has an Eight then I'll just have to suck-out on the river.

If we didn't raise pre-flop, I'll think about checking.

gobbledygeek · #6 09-06-2007, 05:16 PM

* grunch *

I take the free card.

The difference between this hand and the two hands I questioned about today (under "making myself pay for my own draws") is that in my hands I was heads up on the turn and actually felt there was a chance I could be ahead. In those cases I didn't want my opponent to draw for free if I was ahead, there was a chance I could win the pot right there (heads up) plus if I was behind I had a chance at drawing to the best hand. In this hand you are up against 3 opponents; I think there's a fairly good chance at least one of them is beating you. It's also unlikely that you're going to knock out 3 players with a bet. And getting checkraised would suck. I take the free card.

Fnord · #7 09-06-2007, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's also unlikely that you're going to knock out 3 players with a bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It happens often enough to make betting +EV. Players in these games are calling a flop bet with a wide range of hands that won't call a turn bet if we have a tight/winning image. We might even win a showdown checking behind the river when we otherwise would have had to fold to an induced river bluff.

I think checking here is an example of thinking about trying to save bets when we really should be trying to win a big pot.

jesse8888 · #8 09-06-2007, 05:27 PM

Huh...so at least one person who knows what he's doing says this is a bet. Fnord, you just keep firing away here based on the fact that it's very possible none of my opponents have a pair yet?

gobbledygeek · #9 09-06-2007, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It happens often enough to make betting +EV. Players in these games are calling a flop bet with a wide range of hands that won't call a turn bet if we have a tight/winning image. We might even win a showdown checking behind the river when we otherwise would have had to fold to an induced river bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? All 3 opponents, who've called a paired flop, are going to fold enough of the time? I'm not convinced of this...

As for the river, I admit that when we whiff we now open ourselves up for a bluff bet. But against 3 opponents on the river I really don't think my A9 high is going to be good all that often so I don't have any problem folding... is this all too weak?

GplayingwithmycardsfaceupG

Fnord · #10 09-06-2007, 05:32 PM

Lemming #1 has AJ and didn't improve, he puts you on a pair because you're so darn tight and feels good about folding to your turn bet after making a good flop call.

Lemming #2 has 22 and peeled the flop because he thinks he has pot odds to draw to his 2 outer and also wants to see if you'll give up on over-cards. He also folds.

Lemming #3 has Queen rag of Diamonds and calls because he's on a flush draw.

On the river it goes check, check and we scoop. It happens.