$11 NLTRN - please help me understand limp-[call|rerais]ers

[pokercurious]

8th hand of the match - he'd limped his first 3 buttons, this is his 4th button:

Hero (BB): 1,580
SB: 1,420

Pre-Flop: (30) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
SB calls 10, <font color="red">Hero raises to 80</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to 1,420 and is All-In</font>

1. I don't understand hands that do this, can somebody help me assign a range here? What range do you call this with?

2. And the same thing goes for limp-callers. I almost never give them credit, assuming that they're probably speculating with their J4 or 37 or whatever. I have trouble, though, with the following situation: villain limps, I raise to 80 with, say, [A9+, 99+, KQs], and he calls. Flop comes J37 rainbow. I'm unsure in this spot with the Ax and KQ hands. They will call a flop bet a lot of the time and then I'm stuck in a big pot with A or K high (excepting AJ, of course). And this kind of limp-call scrambles my brain - I can't narrow anything down when they call there.

[ChicagoRy]

Fold.

[vodoo]

easy fold.

limp raise is like 100% QQ+

Even if hes a donk and he is pushing with any Ace you are still behind.

[pokercurious]

To clarify, I'm not asking whether or not I should fold in this spot. I'm asking about what we can expect villain to have.

vodoo, I assume that "limp raise is like 100% QQ+" meant limp-RRAI.

What, then, is the range of a limp-<u>caller</u> (OP question #2)?
Is it possible to narrow down the range beyond ATC?
If so, what trends in a player's behavior help you do so?

Like I said, this is a situation I face where I think I could be spewing chips, but I'm also unwilling to check these ([A9+, KQs]) kinds of hands when limped to with medium+ stacks.

1. I'm wary of check-folding too much here
2. I'm also wary of betting because I notice I often get called and then am stuck with overcards in a big pot OOP with little to no information about my opponent's hand.

I guess, for the purpose of this discussion, let's assume this limp-call situation happens on the first hand of an $XX level HUSNG and your sharkscope subscription has magically expired.

[theordinaryboy]

Villains hand range for limp-calling is extremely wide, some villains call any 2 cards. A lot of bad players hate putting some money into a pot then folding.

2 things i have found help me with playing 2 big cards out of position, the first is raising to 3xbb instead of 4xbb like i used to, the other is to nearly always check the flop, which kind of reverses the disadvantage of position a little, its just like checking dark live.

[bbbushu]

ill say that this is 33 and A4 a lot more than y'all seem to think. i don't think i'd call with KQs but i probably call with AJs and AQ a whole lot.

[hra146]

[ QUOTE ]
easy fold.

limp raise is like 100% QQ+

Even if hes a donk and he is pushing with any Ace you are still behind.

[/ QUOTE ]


that is 100% not true. This is 22 - 66 and random crap they know is a good holding but dont wanna play postflop so often.

Ofcourse with KQs its a fold, but give me 88 here and I snapcall.

[vodoo]

im sorry i wasnt really thinking there.

I meant limping and then shoving to a raise usually means a good hand.

Maybe not always QQ+ but a good hand.

Snapcalling with 88 isnt a good idea there imo

[ghettointlectual]

To respond to OP question,
The Limp reraise or reraise all in is usually a very good hand. KQ is not strong enough I would fold.

When OOP the deeper you are the bigger your disadvantage. The shorter you are the smaller your disadvantage. When playing a hand oop planning is even more important because you can't say "I'll wait and see what he does" So you should decide what you will do if villain calls or raises before you put any money into the pot.

On a sidenote: I disagree with one of the posters who advocated raising less, I think that having deeper stacks oop increases your opponents advantage even if they suck. If you are constantly getting called on the flop then try to double barrel or raise with a tighter range but to a higer amount, instead of 4 bb raise to 5 or 6.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
ill say that this is 33 and A4 a lot more than y'all seem to think. i don't think i'd call with KQs but i probably call with AJs and AQ a whole lot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. I've seen this even with completely random crap that villain has to know can't be good, like K9 or Q7.

I'm still not calling with KQ though. Not unless I've already put like 1/3-1/2 my stack in, and didn't just push because I was trying to induce a light push. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]