JJ OOP, 3-bet pot 4 ways.....and mayhem ensues

[yegon]

so I still have a 2 questions here:

1. how small would the BB's AI have to be for us to call and why?

2. if for some sick, inexplicable reason we would have just called pf with QQ, would that change the situation in any way on the flop?

[NL Newbie]

call/fold prob.

Sucks if CO/Others shove TT or something, or combo draws - But if they do, i still think we're behind majority of time. Maybe even to the initial shover(but less likly).

[members_only]

I think you played it fine.

Hard for CO to bluff-shove when the pot is protected

[Khumalo]

[ QUOTE ]
1. how small would the BB's AI have to be for us to call and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

If our plan is to play for set value, our move on the flop is to check-fold when we miss, especially out of position. The rule of thumb is that investing more than 1/5 of your stack (effectively) begins to commit you, and bet- or call-folding beyond that becomes problematic, unless you're running a big bluff or (say) a card falls that completely destroys your hand or villain suddenly gives off an *exceptionally reliable* indication that your equity is terrible / you're basically dead.

Say BB has $5 and shoves, you shrug it off and call, CO surprises you and calls, BTN shoves all in, now what? That's a best case scenario, but you're still not thrilled, cause CO might have read BTN for a shove and is trapping more money in the pot. Your problem is your inability to control / anticipate the actions of two opponents in a re-raised pot who act after you. BB's stack size isn't really changing that.

2. If I show up with QQ here I shove over BB and expect BTN to call me incorrectly fairly often and take my lumps when CO has AA/KK. But I'm likely felting it pre.

[willyc]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine.

Hard for CO to bluff-shove when the pot is protected

[/ QUOTE ]

What if CO is Mike Baxter?

[corsakh]

BB's all in is never small. If he had very little money left, he would push preflop. Stop sucking water out of the finger, the whole hand is pretty stupid. Fold preflop, you get no odds to call. Raise preflop if you think you have the best hand. And then follow through with your decision on the flop.

[QuadLaser]

[ QUOTE ]
BB's all in is never small. If he had very little money left, he would push preflop. Stop sucking water out of the finger, the whole hand is pretty stupid. Fold preflop, you get no odds to call. Raise preflop if you think you have the best hand. And then follow through with your decision on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

He def. has odds to call this . He is calling $4.75 and closing the action. He will flop a set one in 8.5 times so he needs to profit 4.75 * 8.5 = 40.37 when he hits. There is already 6.75 * 4 = $27 in the pot. He needs to extract only $13 when he hits to break even on set-mining the jacks. It seems VERY reasonable that the short stacks are committed to this hand already, not to mention that CO likely has a big pair and will at LEAST make some flop c-bet, which in a $27 dollar pot has to be around $10+

[corsakh]

Why people with a hundred posts like to argue so much.

[QuadLaser]

[ QUOTE ]
Why people with a hundred posts like to argue so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am trying to learn why he does not have implied odds to call this PF for set value.

[grando]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why people with a hundred posts like to argue so much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am trying to learn why he does not have implied odds to call this PF for set value.

[/ QUOTE ]

he does, easily