A cheating scenario

[Truthiness24]

I recently encountered a curious 9 handed game of 10/20 LO8 in which 2 players participated in absolutely every hand and raised PF about 80% of the time between them. This looks in every way like a juicy situation, but in this game I got my head handed to me in back-to-back sessions. (Obviously: I wouldn't be asking about it if it went the other way!) I got my money in good, and it just didn't seem to go my way.

Most curious was the fact that, in each session, the two maniacs left within 5 minutes of each other BOTH TIMES, and they sat next to each other each time. This seemed exceedingly suspicious to me.

It may be that I don't want to admit that I'm only a mediocre player, or that I just got unlucky against a couple of donks over a small number of hands, but the way it went really got me to thinking about whether I was had.

My question(s), in no particular order, are:
(1) Can two players who play every hand, and play them aggressively, expect to have +EV play in LO8 in spite of all the chips that they are splashing around? Is it possible to win by playing this way? Does the knowledge you get from playing together make up for the chips that you would spew?(What I'm really asking is, would it be worth someone's while to try this?)
(2) Would the maniacs require a third (or fourth) accomplice?
(3) Would people who attempt such a play get cut up against a table of solid players, or is it the solid players that they can best exploit?
(4) Besides leaving, what is optimal strategy against this sort of game?

I don't want to accuse anyone of anything, but I would like your thoughts as to whether I got whipsawed or whether I had a bad session or two.

[I dunno]

What site was this on?

They only way to know would be to analyze the hand histories.

[odomination]

1) Yes, but if you know that they are doing it you could probably beat them, ESPESCIALLY if you have position on both of them. I've played with good players who can beat the daylights out of mediocre players with mediocre hands in position.
2) Not necessarily
3) Ehh, anyone who watches a couple rounds and knows that they are doing it should be able to tear them up by playing solid and letting them try to push you out or trap you for more bets. I would be looking to play SUPER solid hands against them. Any A2, A34, TJQK and I would probably forget about any AA hands that didnt have a 2 or 3 in them
4) See above, sit right behind them. See flops cheap with A34 and raise it up pre with ABB2 and good multiway hands.

[Borys313]

Email support, if anyone can help you its them we can only say "Uhmm that sucks bro"

And the way you described they startegy my guess would be they are idiots and not colluders.

[jbrennen]

I reported almost exactly this situation to Full Tilt support, asking if this amounted to collusion... Two players sit down together at a Pot Limit Omaha (High) table, raise up almost every pot until they're both all-in preflop, and then leave together after doing their damage.

Their response:

[ QUOTE ]

I have reviewed the play of the players and question. Rest assured there
is no collusion or unethical play present. The players in question are
simply capping the betting and allowing the hands to showdown.
Essentially they are "shooting" the hand for gambling purposes. While
this somewhat unethical if other players are at the table, it is
ultimately not collusion or against any Full Tilt Poker policies.


[/ QUOTE ]

I tried to exploit it, and got my money in decent each time, but variance killed me. First hand I decided to play, my AAT3 is cracked by KJJ2. Next hand I play, my AKK7 is beaten by 7442.

I thought it would be very exploitable, because they were basically playing any four cards. But the variance was huge, of course. One of these guys would get stacked and reload for a full buy-in and pick right up where he left off.

[donger]

How can this be bad?

[Borys313]

Instead of reporting such guys put them on your buddy list and welcome to your game whenever they are around.

[Truthiness24]

Hmm ... well, I had position (exactly to their left, both times) and I played more or less the range you describe. The cards just didn't come.

I didn't think it was a bad scenario -- I was licking my chops. But in retrospect I was wondering whether this was exactly that they wanted.

Am I giving these donks too much credit to think that they came in and intentionally sat next to each other for the purpose of capping every betting round, tilting the table, and walking away with all the money?

[franknagaijr]

Have you ever played at a .10/.20 table where people just cap for the helluvit? The money doesn't mean much to them, and they're whooping it up. For these individuals, throwing away a couple grand while whooping it up may not mean much either. Where they literally betting up every single hand?

Any hands worth posting from this session?

[garcia1000]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I giving these donks too much credit to think that they came in and intentionally sat next to each other for the purpose of capping every betting round, tilting the table, and walking away with all the money?

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like a powerful strategy to tilt the 'table' by capping every betting round. Do you know why the pros never do this? It's a conspiracy... they know how unbeatable this strategy is, so the top players all agree secretly not to do it.

I feel sorry for you man