Kinda common spot but one I still have trouble with

[Jay Riall]

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $122.98
Hero (BB): $461.29
UTG: $207.00
CO: $200.00
BTN: $200.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $7.00</font>, SB calls $6.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $33.00</font>, BTN calls $26.00, SB folds

Flop: ($73) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($73) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $55.00</font>, Hero calls $55.00

River: ($183) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets all-in for $112.00</font>, Hero folds
Uncalled bet of $112.00 returned to BTN

Pot Size: $183.00

Readless. What is the best line here readless? I wouldn't be posting this hand if I had a decent read on villain since it makes the hand real easy to play.

[tozzy]

this is a lot about position. switch spots and cb is teh nuts. for this spot: bet ~50$ on the flop. fold to any resistance.

[Capone]

If your going to call a bet on the turn why not c-bet the flop yourself, and c/f the turn.

[cbboy]

We are not looking to make the hand easy to play we are playing to maximize our value (I think?!?!!- correct me if I'm wrong here, Jay!)

Usually, c-betting this flop folds out a lot of lower pairs and whatnot (ie- worse hands) and gets called by Ax (ie- better hands).

[tarheeljks]

yeah, but i don't think we get any money out of med pp's here

[nuggetz87]

i also like betting the flop if we're OOP.

[toybux]

Against an unknown, I'm not a big fan of this line. Just make a standard c-bet and you'll take it down enough to be profitable. With no reads, you are the one left guessing for stacks.

On the other hand, if you have a read that villain will try to push you off an obvious KK/QQ/JJ, then I like this line with a river call. Once you've checked the flop and turn, it is pretty clear you don't have an ace, so if villain will make big moves, this seems fine. I also think it it somewhat more likely that villain would bet an ace on the flop if he is aggressive, so calling on river would be fine with the read.

With a read, hot line. Without, blech line.

[cbboy]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, but i don't think we get any money out of med pp's here

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if we bet flop, they fold. However, if we check the flop and then bet the turn they may call because they put us on a bluff or a weaker pair or something. Agree/disagree?!?!

[CanuckEh]

bet $42 on flop. fold to anything that happens.

[tozzy]

[ QUOTE ]
We are not looking to make the hand easy to play we are playing to maximize our value (I think?!?!!- correct me if I'm wrong here, Jay!)

Usually, c-betting this flop folds out a lot of lower pairs and whatnot (ie- worse hands) and gets called by Ax (ie- better hands).

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. This explains why being IP is invaluable here. For this spot, we are betting not to maximize oure value, but mainly for information, or we get into sots like this.
Esp. when checkin the turn again, we lern nothing about villains hand. He might have a weak ace (AJ+), a set or TT-KK or various junk. If he checks behind, well, then were higly unlikely to get any value anyways. If he bets, were facing a bad spot. He could have the ace, he could have the PP. if we call, do we call a river shove? If we call a river shove, we might well now c/r AI. If we dont, we should fold.
If were checking the flop with the intention to call a turnbet, we should hit ourselves hard since we just spent the same money to get in a spot 1232 times more tricky. screw EV maximization.