Turn Question

[fnord_too]

I pick up a pretty monster draw on the turn. I know I have lots of pot equity but that I am almost definitely against the nuts. Repotting leaves me about $60 left. Jam it in now or call and play a potentially tricky river? I have a hard time folding here when I think I easily have more than 1/3 equity.

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $3/$6
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $295.40
CO: $246.80
Button: $973.05
SB: $880.70
Hero: $378.60

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $12</font>, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($51, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($51, 4 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $25.5</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $76.5</font>

[MHP]

I really don't like checking the flop because lots of cards can come off that hurt your hand.

I just call the 76.5 and hope the other guy gets sucked in as well for better pot equity. Your probably up against the nuts, but you probably have a good hand if board pairs or club hits.

[fnord_too]

Any other thoughts? The more I think about it the more I think I allow my opponents to play the river perfectly if I call; also, calling probably utg along with something like the nfd.

[wazz]

'I really don't like checking the flop because lots of cards can come off that hurt your hand.'

You don't yet have a hand, though you do have blockers to the obvious made hand. First to speak I generally don't bet this unless you have a decent amount of fold equity.

On the turn you have a monster draw and I would be pumping and hoping to get it all-in to free up your outs should you be behind. As played you really can't fold unless you specifically put one of your villains on a higher set which I don't think you can do unless they're playing it with a straight/flush redraw. A lot of the time here you have the 2nd best hand out of the 3 with the 2nd best redraw, and with stack sizes the way they are leading out is usually best here if you can get some folds.

[gergery]

I'd probably have led out on the flop, since you can represent 89 for the nuts w your blockers and have reasonable equity even if played with.

As played i think jamming, flat calling, and even folding are all options based on how they play, recent history etc. with my bias being in that order.

and i don't think calling turns your hand over necessarily as sometimes they'll put you on the other draw and call down, particularly if you boat up.

-g

[guilt_trip]

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't like checking the flop because lots of cards can come off that hurt your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah when I have a pair of jacks - queen kicker I want to protect my hand with the obvious straight on board. Betting here is suicide my man

Turn - I like the check-raise as it gets more money in the pot and will frighten off other draws tagging along that may be blocking you. But its a get it all in scenario whether its bet, 3bet or c/r

[DrMagic]

I lead the flop nearly every time here with the blockers. I agree with wazz about the turn play.

[fnord_too]

Thanks for the comments.

I took a lot of time and potted.

UTG folded, button called. River was Ac, I stuck in my last 60 and he called with the q9 and maybe a king for the straight redraw. Strange play on villains part. If he isn't going to fold why not just shove the rest in on the turn?

[dameblackman]

goddamnit wazz sucks so bad, almost as bad as badbeatphil, but you know who is real gud that guy hakallah aka wintermute (suck my oil)

[glass_onion]

So what was you plan if button potted the flop? What if UTG potted and two called?

Anyway, I don't see how you picked up a monster draw on the turn. You have non nut flush draw, non nut st8 draw (on a board that almost certaintly someone has a st8 on the turn) and a set (which is probably, but not certaintly, the best set).

As you know calling with trips against made st8 isn't profitable. However, HU against a st8 with set+ best flush draw is, given dead money, so get folds. How do you do that? no one bet flop, so going for the CR isn't the best option, since you don't know who will bet. You don't want UTG betting, 2 calls, then you repop and everyone comes for the ride due to pot odds. So pot turn. You already said you were ok getting it all in on the turn, though I'd like to see river (since i'm 99% sure I have to improve to win).