Official Neteller Update Thread Part 2

[bobman0330]

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EDIT: Essentially NETeller is going to reissue those withdrawal requests that the DOJ confiscated -- out of its own coffers? If so, I think just about everyone in this forum owes NETeller an apology and a big thank you.

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I agree. How many people here, if they were running neteller, would do the same?

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Everyone? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're talking about finally making good, but how much credit do they really deserve for paying their debts 6 months late, in breach of their agreement (I assume, haven't actually researched this), and without interest?

[JPFisher55]

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I don't understand what rights European stockholders have, but can they sue the managers and board over this?

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If Neteller was located in the US and the UK was prosecuting it for similar activities, then I believe that the directors and officers of the company would have purused alternative solutions; partly out of fear of shareholder derivative lawsuits.
But in the Isle of Man who knows if shareholder derivative lawsuits have any basis.
Clearly the actions of Neteller and their cooperation with the DOJ were to benefit the arrested founders. I doubt the arrested founders would have received their plea agreement if Neteller had not cooperated with the DOJ and agreed to this fine. This deal clearly harms the public shareholders. Will Neteller ever be listed on the LSE?

[yahboohoo]

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EDIT: Essentially NETeller is going to reissue those withdrawal requests that the DOJ confiscated -- out of its own coffers? If so, I think just about everyone in this forum owes NETeller an apology and a big thank you.

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I agree. How many people here, if they were running neteller, would do the same?

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Everyone? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're talking about finally making good, but how much credit do they really deserve for paying their debts 6 months late, in breach of their agreement (I assume, haven't actually researched this), and without interest?

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NETeller could have easily said, "We paid that debt once. You asked for your money and we sent it -- plain and simple. The fact that you didn't receive it is your problem. And now you're asking us to pay you a SECOND time??? If your money was confiscated by the DOJ, we're sorry but that money is gone. If your money was still on account and not part of the funds confiscated, we'll hang onto it indefinitely."

Call me a cynic, but I think there's more than one among us that would say "F**K you buddy. The gov't screwed me. The gov't screwed you. Boohoo. Besides, what are you going to do about it pal?"

This is about integrity as much as it is about business and legal matters.

[adanthar]

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NETeller could have easily said, "We paid that debt once. You asked for your money and we sent it -- plain and simple. The fact that you didn't receive it is your problem. And now you're asking us to pay you a SECOND time??? If your money was confiscated by the DOJ, we're sorry but that money is gone. If your money was still on account and not part of the funds confiscated, we'll hang onto it indefinitely."

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Of course, they couldn't have, because, again of course, the return of funds to US customers is very likely (I'd say 95%) part of the agreement from the DOJ side of the field.

The DOJ is against us, but they're not evil (and they're also usually acting in concert with the IRS, which doesn't get paid if the money isn't there.)

[bossplayer]

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NETeller could have easily said, "We paid that debt once. You asked for your money and we sent it -- plain and simple. The fact that you didn't receive it is your problem. And now you're asking us to pay you a SECOND time??? If your money was confiscated by the DOJ, we're sorry but that money is gone. If your money was still on account and not part of the funds confiscated, we'll hang onto it indefinitely."

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Of course, they couldn't have, because, again of course, the return of funds to US customers is very likely (I'd say 95%) part of the agreement from the DOJ side of the field.

The DOJ is against us, but they're not evil (and they're also usually acting in concert with the IRS, which doesn't get paid if the money isn't there.)

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Actually, I think this is where being listed on the Exchange probably helped the consumer. It isn't really a viable choice for the company to keep the consumer's money without recourse, and expect more consumers and investors to look to invest money in them in the future.

[PoorLawyer]

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EDIT: Essentially NETeller is going to reissue those withdrawal requests that the DOJ confiscated -- out of its own coffers? If so, I think just about everyone in this forum owes NETeller an apology and a big thank you.

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I agree. How many people here, if they were running neteller, would do the same?

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Everyone? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they're talking about finally making good, but how much credit do they really deserve for paying their debts 6 months late, in breach of their agreement (I assume, haven't actually researched this), and without interest?

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everyone, but I doubt for the reasons you stated. The money owed to customers is separate from their operating account/profits, which is where the fine is coming from. If they don't agree to pay the fine then they have no shot to get re-listed and all of their stocks/options will be even more worthless than they are already. Given the amount of money they make (given calculations above), the fine is relatively small and the chance to get back on the exchange and move forward with a new business model means a great deal in their pockets in terms of future profits.

[yahboohoo]

There are multiple motives NETeller might have had:

* NETeller sees real business opportunities in its remaining markets and wants to demonstrate its trustworthiness and credibility

* NETeller wants to resume trading shares (someday/somehow)

* Repaying NETeller's US customers was mandated by the USAO and DOJ (unlikely, but possible)

* NETeller reasoned that the cost of repaying its customers is less than the cost of lawsuits it might face (reference: NETeller Customer Coalition)

* NETeller has integrity.

* NETeller made a mistake when it promised to return funds to US customers because it didn't yet realize the full consequences it would face (e.g., the seizure of US customers’ $55 million would be permanent)

* NETeller thinks there is a reasonable chance that it will serve the US market again, and this is there way to cushion their reentry.

* Any combination of these reasons and/or others.


And, as someone else pointed out, this could simply be the technical way NETeller and the US gov't worked out the payment of the fine. The DOJ is thinking, "I'll keep the $55 million I've got already and you pay me the balance."

[bobman0330]

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NETeller could have easily said, "We paid that debt once. You asked for your money and we sent it -- plain and simple. The fact that you didn't receive it is your problem. And now you're asking us to pay you a SECOND time??? If your money was confiscated by the DOJ, we're sorry but that money is gone. If your money was still on account and not part of the funds confiscated, we'll hang onto it indefinitely."

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Sure they could say this. They could also say, "lolz, we're steeling ur moniez!1!" Neither statement provides any kind of justification for not paying, and if they descended into naked theft of customer funds, their business would evaporate almost immediately, then they would be sued, and then Neteller would be liquidated, and then the managers would be out of a job. So I do think any practical-minded person would do exactly what they're doing.

The kind of conduct that would deserve "a big thank you" would include: not telling self-serving lies to customers about when money would be available, recognizing that the interest they've been racking up for the past 6 months rightfully belongs to us, not them, and, most importantly, paying back the [censored] money already.

[bossplayer]

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NETeller could have easily said, "We paid that debt once. You asked for your money and we sent it -- plain and simple. The fact that you didn't receive it is your problem. And now you're asking us to pay you a SECOND time??? If your money was confiscated by the DOJ, we're sorry but that money is gone. If your money was still on account and not part of the funds confiscated, we'll hang onto it indefinitely."

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Sure they could say this. They could also say, "lolz, we're steeling ur moniez!1!" Neither statement provides any kind of justification for not paying, and if they descended into naked theft of customer funds, their business would evaporate almost immediately, then they would be sued, and then Neteller would be liquidated, and then the managers would be out of a job. So I do think any practical-minded person would do exactly what they're doing.

The kind of conduct that would deserve "a big thank you" would include: not telling self-serving lies to customers about when money would be available, recognizing that the interest they've been racking up for the past 6 months rightfully belongs to us, not them, and, most importantly, paying back the [censored] money already.

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On the note of needing to say 'thanks' I would also only agree if they had been up front on the customer service side. We were out and out lied to repeatedly, especially in the beginning of this fiasco.

What I don't get is what takes two weeks if the investigation has been concluded. Neteller had just made the announcement they were ready to go when the USAO was done. Oh, wait, interest.

Any guesses as to what the stock value will be when they are unfrozen after the first day? My guess is 30.

[oldbookguy]

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NETeller could have easily said, "We paid that debt once. You asked for your money and we sent it -- plain and simple. The fact that you didn't receive it is your problem. And now you're asking us to pay you a SECOND time???

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One reason they are paying is after the news broke, many, like myself, called NT and the person on the phone stated making the withdrawal in the days that followed was OK and there were no problems when the main office new better.

obg