Frozen flush

[shaundeeb]

prob is randers most times the pot will be too big for you postflop after a decent bet where you have little to no FE vs any hand that paired up on a flop you hit a draw.

[LearnedfromTV]

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Calling off 10% of your stack pre-flop with a suited connector is not good.

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agree.

this is a situation where suited connectors and pocket pairs are significantly different. With a pocket pair the callers in front of you give you a nice edge vs a headsup situation; bigger preflop pot, better chance someone flops top pair or an overpair, larger flop bet. And the key is your hand either very strong or very weak on the flop. It all adds up to being able to pay a little more to see the flop. With a suited connector as many of those factors work against you as for you because most of the time you'll flop draws and need manueverability.

As played, shove the turn. A set will come with you, and you can't call and then fold on a board pair, so there's no advantage to seeing the river vs. a set. You'll hate seeing a diamond river and won't get a river bluff from the bare ace, and pair+ace will probably call turn but often fold river (other than AQ), so there's no advantage to seeing a river vs. the ace either. Your cold call would be at least as scary as a shove to any one pair no diamond hand. And folding isn't really an option; besides the sets, bare ace hands, and pair+diamond hands, there are a handful of lower flushes.

[curtains]

allin. btw I fold this PF, even though its huge multiway action. 10% of stack is just too much for me with 98s.

[mlagoo]

does anyone like just calling the turn? we are going to have to fade a lot of outs (possibly the board pairing and definitely another diamond), but if we do, we can get more value from weaker hands on the river than we can on the turn. like when we cram over a bet and a raise on the turn, is a set really calling us on this board in a 5 way pot? is the Ad calling us, not getting odds? i have a hard time believing our cram gets called here if we're not beat, so the only advantage is protecting our hand (which, i understand, is significant). but if we call here and cram a blank river, i think we get a lot more value from weaker hands that put us on a draw that didn't get there.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone like just calling the turn? we are going to have to fade a lot of outs (possibly the board pairing and definitely another diamond), but if we do, we can get more value from weaker hands on the river than we can on the turn. like when we cram over a bet and a raise on the turn, is a set really calling us on this board in a 5 way pot? is the Ad calling us, not getting odds? i have a hard time believing our cram gets called here if we're not beat, so the only advantage is protecting our hand (which, i understand, is significant). but if we call here and cram a blank river, i think we get a lot more value from weaker hands that put us on a draw that didn't get there.

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I dunno maybe, but the pot is really large at this point. Something to said for simply protecting your hand when its ahead.

[KingDan]

another one for fold PF bomb turn

[RichC.]

just to throw a wrench, anyone like a flop bet when checked to you?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
just to throw a wrench, anyone like a flop bet when checked to you?

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Seems okay to me. We have about 21k and the pot already has 13k in it, its never huge disaster to get checkraised as we will usually have outs. Of course I still like folding PF.

Also once the PF raiser checks I think people are generally less likely to slowplay, and he was the 2nd person to check.

[Randers]

[ QUOTE ]
does anyone like just calling the turn? we are going to have to fade a lot of outs (possibly the board pairing and definitely another diamond), but if we do, we can get more value from weaker hands on the river than we can on the turn. like when we cram over a bet and a raise on the turn, is a set really calling us on this board in a 5 way pot? is the Ad calling us, not getting odds? i have a hard time believing our cram gets called here if we're not beat, so the only advantage is protecting our hand (which, i understand, is significant). but if we call here and cram a blank river, i think we get a lot more value from weaker hands that put us on a draw that didn't get there.

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This is the line i took.

If the guy raising the turn has a flush he's calling my push regardless, but if he doesn't how will i get him to pay me off here. As well, it gives me the opportunity to see what the orig raiser on the turn does.

I sc'd as did the turn raiser and the river D'd up and the turn Rr shoved blah

[Newt_Buggs]

I think that this is a clear preflop fold.