DISCUSS... vbet tha river...???

[mvdgaag]

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I check/call... If we bet and get raised we're in a very tough spot. But if we check we can induce a bluff.

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hes checking everything worse except total air, which is pretty tough for him to have. And hes never raising with worse.

bet/fold is best here

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Yeah, maybe your right... Don't you think he could turn his entire range that's not a boat or a flush into a bluff here?

[mvdgaag]

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I assume we're not check calling a push...

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I expect him to almost never push if we check it to him.

[kaz2107]

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I check/call... If we bet and get raised we're in a very tough spot. But if we check we can induce a bluff.

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hes checking everything worse except total air, which is pretty tough for him to have. And hes never raising with worse.

bet/fold is best here

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Yeah, maybe your right... Don't you think he could turn his entire range that's not a boat or a flush into a bluff here?

[/ QUOTE ]meh. look at his aggr number. he hasnt been "bluff" very much. or betting much in general. he is a c station.

if we r looking to bet fold the river my question is how much??? like half pot of like 25??

[meccaNES]

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I think this is a rare case where a blocking bet is best -- 15-18 and fold to a push. We've got enough behind to fold to a push, and he's not often going to be pushing worse hands often. Check-calling sucks, because he's going to be taking us to value town so often or bluff us off the best hand.

Sometimes we're going to be bluffed and it'll cost us more if we block bet and fold than if we check and fold to a push -- but I think we get thin value more often.

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Bet 18 and fold to a push? He only has 74$ to start with so we're not playing for OUR stack we're essentially playing for his stack which is only 74$

He has what ~50 behind on the river? So he'll be raising you 32 (after our 18 blocker) into an 84 pot...

Having ~33% equity. Soooo.... I think a blocking bet here commits us...and if we're commited we may as well push no?

I'm probly wrong on this but that's ok.

[kaz2107]

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I think this is a rare case where a blocking bet is best -- 15-18 and fold to a push. We've got enough behind to fold to a push, and he's not often going to be pushing worse hands often. Check-calling sucks, because he's going to be taking us to value town so often or bluff us off the best hand.

Sometimes we're going to be bluffed and it'll cost us more if we block bet and fold than if we check and fold to a push -- but I think we get thin value more often.

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Bet 18 and fold to a push? He only has 74$ to start with so we're not playing for OUR stack we're essentially playing for his stack which is only 74$

He has what ~50 behind on the river? So he'll be raising you 32 (after our 18 blocker) into an 84 pot...

Having ~33% equity. Soooo.... I think a blocking bet here commits us...and if we're commited we may as well push no?

I'm probly wrong on this but that's ok.

[/ QUOTE ]ehhh if he shoves over our river lead i doubt we have 33% equity. thus why im wondering how much we should fire into the river cuz im pretty certain if we bet we have to fold to a raise here. he is just too passive to call a river shove on this board

[hennnerz]

I bet more on turn. Then VBET river for like 20/25.

[meccaNES]

Actually i could see him pushing with most of those hands...

Maybe not 33% fully...but most likely enough to call getting 2.7-1 from my previous example.

[Yaboy]

Definitely a tough situation. In this instance I think I would c/c. But, I might fold depending on how much the villain bets (shoves).

If we shove, I don't think he folds, judging by the line he took villain most likely has spiked his flush. Maybe a thinking player would fold due to our possible full house, but not your typical donk.

I also think any sized bet here (value bet, blocking bet, w/e), will be met by a shove by villian, because again, judging by the line he took, villain most likely made his hand on the river.

So IMO, the safest line is c/c (If he bets half his stack or below I'm calling). If villian shoves, fold.

But I'm new to this game, so what do I know?

[Kasane]

Btw, when I say check-calling sucks -- I don't mean it sucks as a choice (it's not moronic), I mean it'll suck when he bets, no matter what he bets. It was a poor choice of words on my part.

So, I'm not saying it's a bad choice, I just think the blocker is better by a bit. I think it gets value from what we get value from, and it loses less against the hands that villain was slowplaying or hit on the river.

Check-calling is the clear second choice, but when he value bets half pot I think we pay him off -- which is less than the bet-fold.

I don't think he's bluffing all that much in this spot when we check. He'll bet hands that beat us more than we beat; but call more lesser hands if we bet. And rarely raise anything but what beats us.

[Yaboy]

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I don't think he's bluffing all that much in this spot when we check. He'll bet hands that beat us more than we beat; but call lesser hands if we bet .

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After thinking about it again, I guess a shove would give us a better shot at taking the pot down.