Downswing Need Sanity Check from 2+2ers

[wslee00]

put more money in! you can definitely afford to put in at least 50 more no?

[Bowlboy]

I have'nt played any online poker in a few months now because of problems with my marriage, though my marriage is over now so I think I'm going to get back into it.

When I first started a year ago playing NLHE on Stars i played .01/.02 and cleaned up over a really decent sample for something like 40bbl/100. That is no joke. Stars 2cent tables play at 250bb deep though a lot of people buy in for stupid amounts anyway. I read tiens 6max fundamentals right when I started playing. I think his recommendations for preflop are a little too tight 10 or 25NL but at 2cent they are just fine. I played super tight and usually ran about 14/10.

The level of play is so bad that there should be no need for anykind of fancy play. You could play a laggy style profitably at that level by outplaying everbody postflop, though for me it was far easier to play like a nit, super straightforward both pre and post flop, which allowed me to play 9 tables at once. Pretty much every bet you make at this level should be a value bet. Stealing blinds is less profitable because you will so often need to showdown a hand to win a pot. You're money at this level should simply come from getting you're TPTK and better hands paid off. Against like 90% of the players there TPTK should be played for stacks.

It's boring poker but it wins the money at that level. Ideally you want to power through it as quickly as possible because the level of play is so stupid.

If you can, I'd recommend that you grind these nano limits on stars because I'm pretty sure that the rake is the best there and the 2cent and 5cent tables are deep stacked which increases your profits on your big hands, which is really where the money is going to come from. Stealing blinds there is meh, because most of the time you cant steal. Same goes for cbetting at whiffed pots because most of the are at least 3 way. If you play super tight you can play more tables and when you hit your big pairs and sets you make your money.

[jerryf1914]

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an ideal vpip would probably be 30-40 with a pfr of less than 5. you have to see as many flops as possible as cheaply as possible to beat the lowest levels of nlhe.

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WOW...Jerry thats terrible advice.

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i am telling him what works. i would know since i have played more 10nl than anyone. stopping playing tag is the best thing that ever happened to my game. besides i only have 1 guy in my 10nl db with a solid wr playing a tag style and several people with solid wr who are not playing tag.

[BevillTheDevil]

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an ideal vpip would probably be 30-40 with a pfr of less than 5. you have to see as many flops as possible as cheaply as possible to beat the lowest levels of nlhe.

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WOW...Jerry thats terrible advice.

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i am telling him what works. i would know since i have played more 10nl than anyone. stopping playing tag is the best thing that ever happened to my game. besides i only have 1 guy in my 10nl db with a solid wr playing a tag style and several people with solid wr who are not playing tag.

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lololololol this is the worst advice EVAR!! Thats WHY you have played more 10NL than anyone else!!!!!lolololol...obv there arent many winning tags at 10NL cause they get better and move up LDO and the ones that are there for a long period of time suck postflop!!! this could be 1 of the most redic threads ive read in a while lolololol

i hate to come off as a dick but COME ON THAT IS HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE ADIVCE!!!!

[kurto]

I actually don't have a problem with Jerry's advice necessarily... I choose tables all the time where TAG isn't ideal.

I love tables where 3-4 players are seeing over 50% of all flops and never fold anything. Furthermore, they are passive preflop.

I seek these tables out. At these tables, raising with speculative hands is costly because you rarely take hands down with cbets and pretty much never steal blinds.

Under these conditions, you can and should see more hands from more positions as cheaply as possible.

I can't say if the $10 tables are good for this style of play since I don't play there... but I've played $25 and $50 tables where I've switched from TAG to loose/passive because the table dynamics called for it.

[BevillTheDevil]

wow ive never seen table dynamics that call for playin like 35/3 like jerry advices ...wtf that is just ludacris. plz explain kurto.

The table dynamics you give im playin my standard 22/20ish style all day.

[Nairb]

Jerry do you paly on PS? What days and times and a screen name would be helpful.

Thanks

[monkeymaps]

dont think Kurto means to play that loose/passive (30-40/3/)
but just that sometimes against horrible opponents that see tons of flops and dont fold to pfr's and dont fold to c-bets you can adjust by just seing alot of flops and value betting them to death when you make a hand. these type of players will call off alot of their stacks in unraised pots anyways so you dont have to raise as much.

game conditions arent like this that often online IMO though, maybe just like fri/sat night.

These concepts do apply more in Live FR NL games at most casinos though were players are just terrible and I think you could win by just limping often and only raising jj+ and AK and turn a good profit.

[kurto]

I must admit I'm surprised that you haven't seen or can't picture the appropriate dynamics.

There are many reasons to raise pf:
(1) you likely have the best hand
(2) steal blinds/pot
(3) buy position
(4) isolate a player
(5) disguise the value of your hand
(6) increases ability to steal flop with c-bet
(7) increase chances of playing for stacks

If the table is filled with shortstacks who aren't going to fold their limping hands to your positional raise AND won't fold postflop if they hit anything... a lot of hands that you would raise to steal blinds now become fold OR limps.

If raising doesn't ever steal blinds, then I don't raise to steal blinds as much.

If raising will never buy you the button, then I don't raise in that instance.

If raising never isolates because 2-3 people still call, then stop raising simply to isolate.

On the other hand, Hands that you would normally fold utg, like suited aces and such, become more playable if you know 4 people are going to see a flop and no one will raise it (or if they do, they raise it 1bb)...but will pay you with their entire stack if you hit.... limping becomes viable.

If I have the button and have 78s, and there are 4 limpers, I'm not raising preflop. Because I'm rarely going to be able to steal on the flop and I'm rarely going to flop huge. That being said, If I flop 2 pair and anyone else has top pair... I'll make a decent pot.

I've been at too many tables where I'm making positional raises quite often, I get 3-4 players to the flop and can't cbet because the players either bet into the field (I missed) or will checkcall down with any pair, any draw, etc.

In these cases, where the play post flop is bad, and the whole table allows everyone to see cheap flops... I can raise my good hands for value, and take speculative hands cheaply... believe me, no one's noticing that I'm raising my good hands and limping with suited connectors.

Don't get me wrong, I usually vary anywhere from supernit (18/9 to 25/13)... but I've found many a table where I gladly switch to playing 33/5

[Nairb]

I think you left out the most important reason to raise PF, to gain information about other hands you are up against. YOu mention suited Aces. Lets say you play Ad 7d and the flop comes A 10 8 rainbow without a diamond. If you limp anyone could call with A 8 and up and you are dominated and with no info a beginner will spew with TPWK at the micros. May work for you but is not good advice to give someone who is already struggling.

Most of the people I see that complain their Aces and Kings always get cracked limp with them and with pairs you are begging to get drawn out on without narrowing down the number of players in the pot.

I hope to see a 35/5 at my tables tonight. Good luck all.