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#1
09-17-2007, 03:10 PM
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anarcho socialism question
I was reading about Socialist anarchism and I see they think this:
[ QUOTE ] Workers would be compensated for their work on the basis of the amount of time they contributed to production, rather than goods being distributed "according to need" [/ QUOTE ] Who decides what work is considered "work" or who picks the jobs. If someone is picking the jobs wouldn't there necessarily be a state? 
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#2
09-17-2007, 03:21 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
I was reading about Socialist anarchism and I see they think this: [ QUOTE ] Workers would be compensated for their work on the basis of the amount of time they contributed to production, rather than goods being distributed "according to need" [/ QUOTE ] Who decides what work is considered "work" or who picks the jobs. If someone is picking the jobs wouldn't there necessarily be a state? [/ QUOTE ] The quote says that workers are paid based on what time they contribute towards production at collective production centers (farm, factory, whatever), rather than being given according to need (this for one particular type of collectivist system). In other words, wages are paid based on amount of work performed. I don't understand how your questions follow from this quote, but I'll answer your question with a question: Who "picks" what jobs are needed in a factory or farm under capitalism? Since it's not the state, why do you think it needs to be a state under collectivism?
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#3
09-17-2007, 03:25 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
Who "picks" what jobs are needed in a factory or farm under capitalism? Since it's not the state, why do you think it needs to be a state under collectivism? [/ QUOTE ] Under capitalism, the owner of the capital decides what jobs are needed based on his/her guess as to what consumers in the market will pay for. Under socialism, if no one owns the means of production then the question becomes "Who makes the call as to how to use the capital?" This is what OP was getting at, I believe. In state socialism, the state owns the captial on behalf of the people, and instructs them as to its use. Under anarchosocialism, where does the direction come from?
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#4
09-17-2007, 03:28 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Who "picks" what jobs are needed in a factory or farm under capitalism? Since it's not the state, why do you think it needs to be a state under collectivism? [/ QUOTE ] Under capitalism, the owner of the capital decides what jobs are needed based on his/her guess as to what consumers in the market will pay for. Under socialism, if no one owns the means of production then the question becomes "Who makes the call as to how to use the capital?" This is what OP was getting at, I believe. In state socialism, the state owns the captial on behalf of the people, and instructs them as to its use. Under anarchosocialism, where does the direction come from? [/ QUOTE ] The people or those acting on behalf of the people. Just because its a stateless society doesn't mean people can't pick Bob to manage the shoe factory. It just means Bob doesn't own the shoe factory now.
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#5
09-17-2007, 03:40 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Who "picks" what jobs are needed in a factory or farm under capitalism? Since it's not the state, why do you think it needs to be a state under collectivism? [/ QUOTE ] Under capitalism, the owner of the capital decides what jobs are needed based on his/her guess as to what consumers in the market will pay for. Under socialism, if no one owns the means of production then the question becomes "Who makes the call as to how to use the capital?" This is what OP was getting at, I believe. In state socialism, the state owns the captial on behalf of the people, and instructs them as to its use. Under anarchosocialism, where does the direction come from? [/ QUOTE ] The people or those acting on behalf of the people. Just because its a stateless society doesn't mean people can't pick Bob to manage the shoe factory. It just means Bob doesn't own the shoe factory now. [/ QUOTE ]Can you give me some more real world examples at how it gets played out in practice? Like how does one go and acquire food (step by step)?
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#6
09-17-2007, 03:53 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Who "picks" what jobs are needed in a factory or farm under capitalism? Since it's not the state, why do you think it needs to be a state under collectivism? [/ QUOTE ] Under capitalism, the owner of the capital decides what jobs are needed based on his/her guess as to what consumers in the market will pay for. Under socialism, if no one owns the means of production then the question becomes "Who makes the call as to how to use the capital?" This is what OP was getting at, I believe. In state socialism, the state owns the captial on behalf of the people, and instructs them as to its use. Under anarchosocialism, where does the direction come from? [/ QUOTE ] The people or those acting on behalf of the people. Just because its a stateless society doesn't mean people can't pick Bob to manage the shoe factory. It just means Bob doesn't own the shoe factory now. [/ QUOTE ] Can you give me some more real world examples at how it gets played out in practice? Like how does one go and acquire food (step by step)? [/ QUOTE ] You don't need corporation X or Mr. Y to own exclusive rights for land for people to collectively grow food on it and eat it. So the process isn't rocket science but quite similar to what you might expect: People grow it. People buy it. People eat it.
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#7
09-17-2007, 04:14 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Who "picks" what jobs are needed in a factory or farm under capitalism? Since it's not the state, why do you think it needs to be a state under collectivism? [/ QUOTE ] Under capitalism, the owner of the capital decides what jobs are needed based on his/her guess as to what consumers in the market will pay for. Under socialism, if no one owns the means of production then the question becomes "Who makes the call as to how to use the capital?" This is what OP was getting at, I believe. In state socialism, the state owns the captial on behalf of the people, and instructs them as to its use. Under anarchosocialism, where does the direction come from? [/ QUOTE ] The people or those acting on behalf of the people. Just because its a stateless society doesn't mean people can't pick Bob to manage the shoe factory. It just means Bob doesn't own the shoe factory now. [/ QUOTE ] Can you give me some more real world examples at how it gets played out in practice? Like how does one go and acquire food (step by step)? [/ QUOTE ] You don't need corporation X or Mr. Y to own exclusive rights for land for people to collectively grow food on it and eat it. So the process isn't rocket science but quite similar to what you might expect: People grow it. People buy it. People eat it. [/ QUOTE ]What do they buy it with? I assume you're going to say currency. How does the person earn currency?
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#8
09-17-2007, 04:15 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
The people or those acting on behalf of the people. Just because its a stateless society doesn't mean people can't pick Bob to manage the shoe factory. It just means Bob doesn't own the shoe factory now. [/ QUOTE ] That sounds like democracy, not anarchy. Or, it's anarchocapitalism where Bob owns the factory.
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#9
09-17-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The people or those acting on behalf of the people. Just because its a stateless society doesn't mean people can't pick Bob to manage the shoe factory. It just means Bob doesn't own the shoe factory now. [/ QUOTE ] That sounds like democracy, not anarchy. Or, it's anarchocapitalism where Bob owns the factory. [/ QUOTE ] Democracy in this context and anarchy are not mutually exclusive. Anarchosocialism, just like AC, does not assume total chaos were people suddenly lose their capacity to make joint decisions. Voting is one means of decision-making and does not require a supreme state, unless you believe that you just formed a government when you and your buddies voted to decide on where to eat lunch.
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#10
09-17-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: anarcho socialism question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Who "picks" what jobs are needed in a factory or farm under capitalism? Since it's not the state, why do you think it needs to be a state under collectivism? [/ QUOTE ] Under capitalism, the owner of the capital decides what jobs are needed based on his/her guess as to what consumers in the market will pay for. Under socialism, if no one owns the means of production then the question becomes "Who makes the call as to how to use the capital?" This is what OP was getting at, I believe. In state socialism, the state owns the captial on behalf of the people, and instructs them as to its use. Under anarchosocialism, where does the direction come from? [/ QUOTE ] The people or those acting on behalf of the people. Just because its a stateless society doesn't mean people can't pick Bob to manage the shoe factory. It just means Bob doesn't own the shoe factory now. [/ QUOTE ] Can you give me some more real world examples at how it gets played out in practice? Like how does one go and acquire food (step by step)? [/ QUOTE ] You don't need corporation X or Mr. Y to own exclusive rights for land for people to collectively grow food on it and eat it. So the process isn't rocket science but quite similar to what you might expect: People grow it. People buy it. People eat it. [/ QUOTE ]What do they buy it with? I assume you're going to say currency. How does the person earn currency? [/ QUOTE ] Currency if the society uses such a thing, or barter. As for how they earn it, see your own OP.
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