(razz) Why do they bet here? What should I do?

[RustyBrooks]

Razz ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (3.65 SB)

Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___???
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets


Why on earth does he bet here? Because he thinks it's a pure steal? Should I raise to show I'm not FOS? What about 5th if I brick? If I check-call here I think I have to fold 5th if I brick, and I guess I should even if I raise here because it'll still only be like 2.5bb in the pot. But he could have total crap here and I'm drawing to a live, strong hand.

[adanthar]

who cares, just raise fourth for value.

ps: I feel like raising fourth lets you call fifth if you brick slightly harder than he does (say, a Q to his T).

[RustyBrooks]

But if I brick and he doesn't, I fold? (P.S. I always brick 5th. It's kind of a strategy of mine)

[adanthar]

yes

[Rush17]

"Why on earth does he bet here?" He bets because, he caught a queen and you caught a king. And at that point, he's drawing better than you. It has nothing to do with you being FOS, that's not why he's betting---thing is, he can see that he has you beat. And if you raise just to show him that you weren't FOS, what is that going to prove, and what do you do if he pops you back?

And yes, regardless of the great starter, you fold 5th if you brick again (providing he doesn't pair up or catch a king etc. etc.)

[RustyBrooks]

Well, in this particular case, he's drawing worse than me. In the best case scenario we're neck in neck. I hardly ever bother to bet in a case like this. If he drew like a T on 4th I might see a bet, and I'd probably bet in that case myself (a T makes him like a 3:2 favorite over my range although in this case he'd be barely ahead).

Betting here really only seems worth it if you think your opponent will fold more than 1/4 times. Otherwise it's just more variance for no reason.

[Andy B]

He bets fourth because Q < K so he thinks he's winning. You, of course, are clever enough to realize that neither of those face cards is likely to be part of a hand that gets shown down, so you're still a favorite. Get your money in there.

And fold fifth if he catches good and you don't.

[SGspecial]

[ QUOTE ]
Razz ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (3.65 SB)

Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___???
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets


Why on earth does he bet here? Because he thinks it's a pure steal? Should I raise to show I'm not FOS? What about 5th if I brick? If I check-call here I think I have to fold 5th if I brick, and I guess I should even if I raise here because it'll still only be like 2.5bb in the pot. But he could have total crap here and I'm drawing to a live, strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're right, it's a silly bet. The SW prompted him to bet (act first) so he bet since a Q<K obv. Don't compound the issue by making a silly raise. Riasing for ego doesn't usually get you very far, and declaring to him "My complete on 3rd wasn't FOS" only gives away information for a very thin value bet, and no fold equity. His hand is defined (he can't have crap in the hole and call you with an 8 door card on 3rd can he??), and yours is a complete mystery except your probably have KJxx or better.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
(he can't have crap in the hole and call you with an 8 door card on 3rd can he??)

[/ QUOTE ]

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! (Sorry, SG, just pullin' yer high stakes leg.) Um --yes he can have KK in the hole and call on 3rd. (That's the worst one I remember) I think you might not have played $1/2 for a while.

Your advice is perfect, of course. But seriously, on a Sunday night when these guys show up you've never seen before, they can have pretty much anything. But only Sunday nights, for some reason.

[SGspecial]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(he can't have crap in the hole and call you with an 8 door card on 3rd can he??)

[/ QUOTE ]

BWAHAHAHAHA!!! (Sorry, SG, just pullin' yer high stakes leg.) Um --yes he can have KK in the hole and call on 3rd. (That's the worst one I remember) I think you might not have played $1/2 for a while.

Your advice is perfect, of course. But seriously, on a Sunday night when these guys show up you've never seen before, they can have pretty much anything. But only Sunday nights, for some reason.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lol, yes my 1/2 expertise is a little rusty. Are you sure the maniacs were calling with KK in the hole, or raising? There are the bullying type who will go nuts with any door card 8 or better, but it's much rarer to find someone who will chase without at least 2 cards to an 8 or better. Obv if you do, take notes on the guy, play accordingly, and follow him around with a bucket.