Dealing errors, how do you act?

[rjbigfish]

With the new NL games in Florida, many inexperienced dealers are now having to deal with games they have never dealt before. I have seen countless mistakes over the last 2 evenings playing in the 1/2 NL game at Melbourne's Club52 and for the most part have tried to correct the dealer every time. I am going to post a handful of these errors and am curious to how others would react to these. I know the major errors need to be fixed but should players also try and 'school' dealers as to proper ways to do things or do you think that is over doing it.

1- Hand is raised to $15, 4 callers, player raises all-in from one of the blinds and has the table covered. Original raiser calls with $95 more so $110 total, all others fold. The pot should have 110+15+15+15+15+1+2+110=283 total. The hand is played out, the original raiser wins and the dealer counts his 110 and adds the 63 from the dead money for $173 and then counts off $173 from the losers stack and pays the winner $346 minus the rake for the pot. If no one notices this do you say something? Is it the responsibility of the player who lost to correct this or should anyone at the table speak up if you see an error like this made?

2- A few limps, player raises to $15, 3 total callers. A little more then $60 in the pot. Players check to original raiser who puts $30 that was in his hand in the pot then reaches to his stack and announces $70. Clearly a string bet. If you are not in this hand do you say something?

3- Player posts big blind #2. In the game at Melbourne there is a $1 small bind and 2 $2 big blinds. After that hand the player has left the table. When he should be posting his 2nd $2 big blind. Dealer gives him a missed BB button and has the next 2 post. Next hand is dealt and then the blinds move and when its time for the button to pass the person who missed the blind she puts it on him and the 3 blinds from the previous hand are asked to post again. Say the obvious that the blind posters should not have to post the same blinds and the previous hand or do nothing if they say nothing?

4- Seat 3 raises to $25, Seat 4 calls, Seat 8 who is in the last BB calls. Seat 3 announces All-in which he is apparently trying to bet in the dark even though its Seat 8's turn to act if the flop were dealt. Seat 4 thinks its a raise of the $25 preflop still but this would be Seat 3 raising himself. Seat 4 mucks and Seat 8 mucks before the flop is dealt. Seat 3 raised himself allin. After seeing what happened seat 3 announced that he was betting allin in the dark on the flop and doesnt think he should get the $50 plus the blinds in the pot. To me this is an easy call the floor for a ruling but the players in the hand decide that its ok if they got their $25 back and decide to give the dealer the $3 in blinds as a tip. If you are not in the hand do you let this happen or do you call the floor?

5- Players put in a red $5 chip for their blind. Action gets to them and they fold. Dealer constantly pulls this money into the pot without making change to make change later. Sometimes they do, sometimes they forget and have to be reminded. Do you tell them that they should not pull money into the pot unless making change then or do you just constantly let this happen?

6- Player moves all-in and pushes his stack of reds into the pot. He holds on to $6 in white chips playing with them as the hand is played out. He loses and is covered and the pot is pushed to the winner without the $6. No one says anything and the player that loses rebuy's for $100 and now has $106. Do you speak up and ask that the winner get the $6?

[dachord]

If you're the one being shorted, bring it to their attention immediately, otherwise...

[Rottersod]

If the dealer is making a mistake about money/chips then speak up even if you are not involved. Everyone at the table has the right to be in an honest game and if the dealers are incapable of providing that then you, as a player have the duty to speak up and make things right. If it's about a string bet then don't say anything unless you're in the hand

[four2flush]

There is defineltly a HUGE learning curve that will evolve over the next few months. Especially for those dealers trained in house. I think mistakes such as you mentioned should be brought to the dealers attention and in some cases to the attention of the floor so they can make other dealers aware of these situations and how to handle them in the future.

[Wongboy]

I believe that you should try to strike a balance between maintaining a friendly game and protecting the interests of all players. With that being said, here is what I would do. Others will likely disagree with some or all of my approaches.

[ QUOTE ]
1- Hand is raised to $15, 4 callers, player raises all-in from one of the blinds and has the table covered. Original raiser calls with $95 more so $110 total, all others fold. The pot should have 110+15+15+15+15+1+2+110=283 total. The hand is played out, the original raiser wins and the dealer counts his 110 and adds the 63 from the dead money for $173 and then counts off $173 from the losers stack and pays the winner $346 minus the rake for the pot. If no one notices this do you say something? Is it the responsibility of the player who lost to correct this or should anyone at the table speak up if you see an error like this made?

[/ QUOTE ]

I speak up here if the loser is not paying attention. This is a non-trivial amount of money and the loser probably assumes that he can trust the dealer to get it right.


[ QUOTE ]
2- A few limps, player raises to $15, 3 total callers. A little more then $60 in the pot. Players check to original raiser who puts $30 that was in his hand in the pot then reaches to his stack and announces $70. Clearly a string bet. If you are not in this hand do you say something?

[/ QUOTE ]

NO! I am of the school that only a player in the hand should call a string bet. Where I usually play, dealers are specifically prohibited from calling a player on a string bet unless another player in the hand objects first.

[ QUOTE ]
3- Player posts big blind #2. In the game at Melbourne there is a $1 small bind and 2 $2 big blinds. After that hand the player has left the table. When he should be posting his 2nd $2 big blind. Dealer gives him a missed BB button and has the next 2 post. Next hand is dealt and then the blinds move and when its time for the button to pass the person who missed the blind she puts it on him and the 3 blinds from the previous hand are asked to post again. Say the obvious that the blind posters should not have to post the same blinds and the previous hand or do nothing if they say nothing?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, this mistake is so obvious that one or more of the "victims" has to know that they just posted the blinds twice in a row. They either do not care (presumably because they consider one or two dollars to be nothing), or they are oblivious. I probably let this one go if I am not in a blind. The only reason why I might say something is if I see it before any cards are dealt, and then only to save time since the likely outcome is for someone to mention it, resulting in a mis-deal.

[ QUOTE ]
4- Seat 3 raises to $25, Seat 4 calls, Seat 8 who is in the last BB calls. Seat 3 announces All-in which he is apparently trying to bet in the dark even though its Seat 8's turn to act if the flop were dealt. Seat 4 thinks its a raise of the $25 preflop still but this would be Seat 3 raising himself. Seat 4 mucks and Seat 8 mucks before the flop is dealt. Seat 3 raised himself allin. After seeing what happened seat 3 announced that he was betting allin in the dark on the flop and doesnt think he should get the $50 plus the blinds in the pot. To me this is an easy call the floor for a ruling but the players in the hand decide that its ok if they got their $25 back and decide to give the dealer the $3 in blinds as a tip. If you are not in the hand do you let this happen or do you call the floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, odd decision, but it sounds like a very friendly table if they all agreed to do this. Sounds like an honest mistake and the "victim" is not upset. I let it go.

[ QUOTE ]
5- Players put in a red $5 chip for their blind. Action gets to them and they fold. Dealer constantly pulls this money into the pot without making change to make change later. Sometimes they do, sometimes they forget and have to be reminded. Do you tell them that they should not pull money into the pot unless making change then or do you just constantly let this happen?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't correct dealers on procedure issues. I would ensure that I get correct change if I fold in a blind, although from everything else this sounds like a very good table, so I may not be folding much.

[ QUOTE ]
6- Player moves all-in and pushes his stack of reds into the pot. He holds on to $6 in white chips playing with them as the hand is played out. He loses and is covered and the pot is pushed to the winner without the $6. No one says anything and the player that loses rebuy's for $100 and now has $106. Do you speak up and ask that the winner get the $6?

[/ QUOTE ]

This happened to me at Caesars on my recent Vegas trip. I took $500 ish off a guy at the 1/3 table on a monster pot. I had him covered, and he shoved me his stacks of reds. I looked over at his remaining 3 white chips that were back near the rail. I said that he could keep those, which was very dickish of me (I was stuck and in a bad mood). The guy handed me the 3 bucks. I'm lucky he didn't clock me instead for being a complete ass. In your situation, if the winner wants to be a non-douche and not push for the extra 6 bucks, I definately don't say anything as a bystander.

[Lord_Strife]

Wow this number of mistakes is out of this world. I am working for a new poker room that opened in Tampa (Tampa Greyhound) and we certainly would be reprimanded heavily if we were caught making any of these mistakes. However, the only way these dealers are going to learn is to constantly bring it to their attention, so I say speak up.

This is only going to lead to more mistakes that might unfortunately cost you in the long run :\

[youtalkfunny]

Choose your battles. #1 is a clear "speak up".

A string bet when you're not in the pot, or the matter of who owes a $2 blind, is better left alone.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
1- Hand is raised to $15, 4 callers, player raises all-in from one of the blinds and has the table covered. Original raiser calls with $95 more so $110 total, all others fold. The pot should have 110+15+15+15+15+1+2+110=283 total. The hand is played out, the original raiser wins and the dealer counts his 110 and adds the 63 from the dead money for $173 and then counts off $173 from the losers stack and pays the winner $346 minus the rake for the pot. If no one notices this do you say something? Is it the responsibility of the player who lost to correct this or should anyone at the table speak up if you see an error like this made?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'd speak up if I noticed this.

[ QUOTE ]
2- A few limps, player raises to $15, 3 total callers. A little more then $60 in the pot. Players check to original raiser who puts $30 that was in his hand in the pot then reaches to his stack and announces $70. Clearly a string bet. If you are not in this hand do you say something?


[/ QUOTE ]

Imo, string bets should be called by players in the hand. After all, some of them might benefit from it.

[ QUOTE ]
3- Player posts big blind #2. In the game at Melbourne there is a $1 small bind and 2 $2 big blinds. After that hand the player has left the table. When he should be posting his 2nd $2 big blind. Dealer gives him a missed BB button and has the next 2 post. Next hand is dealt and then the blinds move and when its time for the button to pass the person who missed the blind she puts it on him and the 3 blinds from the previous hand are asked to post again. Say the obvious that the blind posters should not have to post the same blinds and the previous hand or do nothing if they say nothing?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say something.

[ QUOTE ]
4- Seat 3 raises to $25, Seat 4 calls, Seat 8 who is in the last BB calls. Seat 3 announces All-in which he is apparently trying to bet in the dark even though its Seat 8's turn to act if the flop were dealt. Seat 4 thinks its a raise of the $25 preflop still but this would be Seat 3 raising himself. Seat 4 mucks and Seat 8 mucks before the flop is dealt. Seat 3 raised himself allin. After seeing what happened seat 3 announced that he was betting allin in the dark on the flop and doesnt think he should get the $50 plus the blinds in the pot. To me this is an easy call the floor for a ruling but the players in the hand decide that its ok if they got their $25 back and decide to give the dealer the $3 in blinds as a tip. If you are not in the hand do you let this happen or do you call the floor?


[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you call the floor? The situation looks to have resolved itself.

[ QUOTE ]
5- Players put in a red $5 chip for their blind. Action gets to them and they fold. Dealer constantly pulls this money into the pot without making change to make change later. Sometimes they do, sometimes they forget and have to be reminded. Do you tell them that they should not pull money into the pot unless making change then or do you just constantly let this happen?

[/ QUOTE ]

You tell them who needs change.

[ QUOTE ]
6- Player moves all-in and pushes his stack of reds into the pot. He holds on to $6 in white chips playing with them as the hand is played out. He loses and is covered and the pot is pushed to the winner without the $6. No one says anything and the player that loses rebuy's for $100 and now has $106. Do you speak up and ask that the winner get the $6?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not after the hand is over. When he's pushing all in, and announced it, you might ask about the extra $6.

Edit: I'll also say that having an image that you're looking out for the table in general instead of just yourself may gain you a favorable image to some opponents that you can use.

b

[rjbigfish]

1 I said something, everyone seemed confused and said that he owes what is in the pot but after going over the action again everyone understood that the losing player was being over charged. The dealer seemed confused at the start but then understood and apologized.

2 I was not in the hand and said nothing. One of the other players not in the hand kinda threw his arms up and smirked. After the hand is over he said something to the player and the dealer then asked that all players verbalize their bets and raises to avoid confusion.

3 I told the dealer that the button needs to pass the person because everyone would be posting the same blinds as the previous hand if not. She said that the 3 blinds confused her and she apologized and the button was advanced a seat and everything went fine.

4 I was not in the hand. Before the players worked it out I thought it would be obvious to call the floor but since everyone agreed and the end result no one really lost it seemed like a reasonable decision.

5 This is where I am really interested in others opinions. Posting a $5 chip as a blind is very common in this game because there are very few white chips in play. In the previous limit games it is obvious that the blinds were normally the correct denomination chips or they were rarely folded because almost every dealer I have seen is making the mistake of pulling the chips into the pot as the action moves around and not making change until the action for that round is closed. Sometimes with raises and reraises they completely forget who had what and it slows the game down. I have been telling the dealers that they should make change before pulling it in or waiting until the action closes to pull everything in and make change then because they should not have to rely on memory as to who had what. Most seem to understand, I just dont want to give the impression that I am trying to tell them how to do their job.

6 The dealer never pulled the chips into the pot until after the hand was complete. When the hand was over I said he should have to put his other $6 in the pot but the dealer did not hear me. The player that won the hand did hear me and whispered to me dont worry about it so I did not say anything further.

I have never been a person that expects the dealers to be perfect but I think many of the mistakes are being made because the dealers just do not know any better. I never say something to them to try and make the dealer feel bad, I mainly just want them to know what to do so they do not continue to make the same mistakes. I too come from the belief that if mistakes with $$ are involved anyone that notices should speak up and wanted to see if that was the opinion of others. I normally do not say anything when procedure mistakes are made but after seeing the same mistakes over and over the last few days I have changed my stance on this and have been more outspoken because many of the mistakes will continue to be made unless someone informs them.