Make him draw w bad odds vs. Take Pot Down?? NLTRN

x2metallica8x · #1 08-09-2007, 05:28 AM

hey guys. I have a heads up conceptual question Ive been trying to figure out. When I know my opponent is on a draw, but the pot is a pretty decent size, should I make a bet that is giving him terrible odds to call, which will make me an eventual winner in the long run, or just take down the pretty decent sized pot by shoving, and continue to chip away at him w 2 to 1 chip lead or so? My following example is for a $50 HU sng, but this discussion can be spread out w MTT HU situations as well. Maybe the obvious answer is to just shove when theres a decent pot and take it down when u know your opponent is on a draw, but Im just not sure.

What should my turn bet be, assuming I'm willing to go all the way with it if he shoves. This guy is a fish on sharkscope, so Im pretty sure hes on a draw w his flop call.

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Button (t1390)
Hero (t1610)

Preflop: Hero is in BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Button raises to t60, Hero calls t40

Flop: (t130) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t80, Hero raises to t280, Button calls t200

Turn: (t690) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
????

Lets assume this guy doesnt have a flush. I see bad players call w flush draws a lot more of the time here than w a made flush, so I'm not too worried about that.

tmcdmck · #2 08-09-2007, 07:09 AM

never shove in that situation, your assumption he doesnt have a flush is a dodgey one, and your kicker is not up to much. I would try and keep the pot small. basically i disagree with either of your options as they both inflate the pot. I would NEVER check raise there. I would probably take quite a passive line in this hand, there is minimal value to be had anywhere.

HokieGreg · #3 08-09-2007, 07:22 AM

this should be a 3 bet preflop against most peoples button raising ranges

as played i think its an ok spot for a 3/4-pot size lead on the flop to try to take it down early.

check-calling on this flop is pretty bad because you are letting a ton of hands that you are ahead of get there on the turn. c/c gives you the least information on villains hand as most players will be c-betting this board a good % of the time.

check-raising is probably still your best option. if you get called i would still bet a "safe" turn card like the 5h.

you put yourself in a difficult situation by not 3 betting preflop. 3bet to 180-200 preflop and lead flop for 300-350. if he calls/pushes then you have a tough decision but at least you took a better line.

TheSalche · #4 08-09-2007, 10:00 AM

I don't know what it is, but I really hate the flop check/raise. It commits a lot of chips to this pot, and we're probably going to lead a non-spade turn card ... if he pushes the turn we'll have about 900 - 1000 left if we fold and are probably waaaay behind if we call.

x2metallica8x · #5 08-10-2007, 07:35 AM

Usually I do 3 bet pf w AT, but Ive found out that when an A comes on the flop, I dont get much out of it, but when its disguised I get paid off more often than not.
Inflating the pot Ive noticed seems to be one of my leaks. I think I need to keep it small. But calling the flop seems like Im just letting him draw on me. Is this how it should be played?
And in these matches is straightforward play the best approach or is it ok to slowplay AT pf like what I did? Just tryin to get better HU. thanks guys.

HokieGreg · #6 08-10-2007, 08:22 AM

Yeah this should def be a 3 bet preflop. 3bet to 180-200 and cbet most flops.

If you flat call preflop what are you doing if you dont connect??? You are definitely losing value with A10 playing this passively against almost all opponents.

If you 3bet and the flop is AXX and he folds to your lead then you are taking down a 360-400 chip pot. Cbet size should be 300-350.

AX is a difficult hand to play when you call a raise oop. I typically fold A8 and lower against most opponents and 3bet A9+ against most. Calling and not flopping an ace leaves you with too many tough decisions and you are going to lose a lot of chips check/folding to cbets.

Also, don't worry so much about "disguising" your hand. I take it you aren't playing any higher than the 55 level, so straightforward play is absolutely the best approach.

I don't think it's worth analyzing your postflop decisions in this particular hand, as a 3bet preflop and flop cbet would pot commit you and you wouldn't have to be making such tough decisions. Building a big pot oop here is fine. If villain calls 3bets too wide or chases draws too much then exploit those leaks by maximizing your hands value.

x2metallica8x · #7 08-10-2007, 08:27 PM

-about "disguising" hands
Wouldnt it be ok to do this sometimes when playing against a player with a straight line going up on their sharkscope, even if it is a 55?

HokieGreg · #8 08-11-2007, 12:27 AM

it's ok to "disguise" your hand if it is the right situation.

this is probably the worst situation to worry about disguising your hand though