Curing bad habits

[dachord]

I've been playing in a regular home game for the past 2 years. Most of the players rarely play at B&Ms, so they are by and large ignorant of proper play and table etiquitte. Otherwise, they're good guys and always bring a lot of money to the table. With that in mind, two of the other regulars and I have slowly but diplomatically "corrected" most of their bad playing habits. Here are some examples of the bad habits that have been corrected:
1. Talking on cell phones while playing.
2. Continuous Betting out of turn.
3. Making comments or analysis about the hand in play.
5. Walking away from the table for something like a bathroom break and then getting upset when they are dealt out.

Like I mentioned earlier, these are decent guys (for the most part) but they're just a little ignorant in some respects of poker etiquette.

Here's my question: So far we have been unable to break their habit of openly discussing the cards that they folded while the current hand is still in play. They've even gone as far as digging into the muck pile and pulling out their cards. Example: UTG raises, everyone folds except the BB. Heads up play. The flop comes out 233, one of these guys grabs the muck pile, pulls out his folded cards and exposes them showing that he folded a 23. I've tried to explain to them why this is wrong. They nod their heads as if they understand what I'm trying to convey to them, but it only lasts 3 or 4 hands before they do it again. I'm open to suggestions as to the best diplomatic approach to correct this habit. It would be very easy to make crass comments when they do this, but this approach would have a -EV, these guys have money and don't mind donating (if you know what I mean), so crassness or blunt threats are out of the question. Comments?

[nuts]

We don't deal out, but fold out when action is on and person is absent. Then they have a chance to come back and find a hand.

As for the problem, you could declare any hand in which this happens as a redeal, but that's open to abuse perhaps.

Tell them to wait till the end of the hand before showing anything?

We used to run a penalty system for a misdeal, so a bad deal meant you had to put a sb into the next pot. This helped speed up our game, when we passed the deck to deal. Maybe you could do a similar system? 1sb penalty for showing a card during a hand?

[dachord]

Pretty good suggestion. I'll give it a try.

[Lottery Larry]

"Example: UTG raises, everyone folds except the BB. Heads up play. The flop comes out 233, one of these guys grabs the muck pile, pulls out his folded cards and exposes them showing that he folded a 23."

The attempt to train them- "If you had K6o and were going to bet at this flop, would YOU want someone ELSE to show that they folded a 32?"

[Texibus]

I have a similair problem myself with the guys at my house. They love to show crappy cards that hit and say would you play that or something so you know they must have folded the nuts. I guess they like for people to share their pain, but i like the idea of the small blind as a sort of light punishment, but what else is a suggestion?

[jtr]

How about giving them only one hole card for the next orbit?

[smoore]

I like the idea of a monetary penalty (since in a card room they would just be ejected and I don't think you want this).

1) NO ONE touches the muck but the current dealer. Just don't do it. This is just across the bad etiquette/cheating line IMO... just leave the trash alone. BAD DOG!

this leaves...
2) Talking about your hand. Make it a hard and fast rule. Don't talk about it unless you are one of the participants in a HEADS UP hand. You can say "STOP, WAIT!" before the dealer mucks the board and then say, "Man, I folded rag-rag... that shiznat wooda hizzit!" That's rude but not against the rules [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

For the transgression of talking about an ongoing hand perhaps having to throw a SB (small bet, big blind) into THIS pot would be appropriate. They have folded and have no chance to win that SB back. Write it down, make EVERYONE follow it... I'd guess there are some people that have been corrupted by this behavior that otherwise play within the rules. In addition, if you have monetary penalties for other MAJOR infractions they won't feel singled out when they make this faux pas.