CP: Impact of card room going into Forest Lake????

[danspartan]

Can't find much details on whats going into Forest Lake, other than it is. Does anyone have more details?

Any idea on impact? Sampson told the racing commission that CP offered some early retirement packages in anticipation of lost revenue due to competition coming in. One of the commissioners wasnt very happy (you can find meeting notes online).

Good for players or will it kill games by splitting the fields?

[vhawk01]

I cant really imagine it mattering much. CP is always packed to the gills, and the games are so good, I think it could afford a little competition. It won't be good, of course, but it shouldn't hurt much.

[MarkGritter]

Is this the "North Metro Harness Initiative"? You'll have better luck looking for news related to Columbus township, not Forest Lake.

The latest news reports I saw said they've broken ground in January but no projected opening date yet. The Minnesota Racing Commission website doesn't have any more information.

The NMHI got some financing this April:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/bl...C381EC36F220%7D

Under the financing agreement, they need to complete construction by June 30, 2008 and operate the cardroom by July 1, 2008. http://www.secinfo.com/d11MXs.utR9.htm

Considering how full Canterbury usually is, I don't think this will seriously impact poker at CP, though racing dollars may be another matter. Canterbury is angling to get slots or expanded operations, I think.

[Milo]

[ QUOTE ]
I cant really imagine it mattering much. CP is always packed to the gills, and the games are so good, I think it could afford a little competition. It won't be good, of course, but it shouldn't hurt much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canterbury is much less often packed these days, and on weeknights they rarely have all tables running anymore. Weekends are still busy, but not like 2 years ago when the lists could reach 50 names and take 2 hours. Last Saturday night at 11pm they had one or two open tables and the lists were either short or non-existent.

The change can't be good. Frankly, CP is already one of the best run rooms in the country and they have little room for improvement if they want to compete.

This having been said, I can think of three changes that would help:

1) Spread limit games.

2) Mixed games (okay, this probably wouldn't help much in competing, but I would like it, so I tossed it in).

3) Less stingy comps.

[danspartan]

I've really noticed the decrease in wait times over the past two years. Its odd because my perception of the parking is that the live racing is exceptionally strong this year but there seems to be less spillover into poker. Friday nights during live racing were always juicy with all kinds of dead money sitting down after 10.

They must notice too, because there is seems to be more promotions (largely bad beat jackpots boosters). I play on Thursdays and there seems to be a healthy interest in the sit-n-gos. I do think their low price point of $200 for real tournaments is over the threshold for a lot of players. Lots want to gain some live tournament experience but not at $200 a throw. They should be less interested in per table revenue on touraments and use them more to get fannies in the door as a loss leader.

[MarkGritter]

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1) Spread limit games.


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State-imposed $60 max bet == ultra lame spread-limit.

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2) Mixed games (okay, this probably wouldn't help much in competing, but I would like it, so I tossed it in).


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like it too but their operating agreement with the state may prohibit running mix games or adding lowball games to the mix. My experience is that CP wants to protect the Omaha games and won't start anything that looks like it will draw too many people from those games. (Haven't been in a while, though, because the Stud/8 game hasn't been going.)

If they've got tables open on weekdays maybe we can get a SHOE game going; I'd show up. But is a mix really going to attract new players? (Well, me, I guess.)

[ QUOTE ]
3) Less stingy comps.

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I don't think this is going to get people in the door; at best it might help maintain some regulars.

CP management's solution to their declining revenues (well, revenues growing at 1% instead of 20% last year) has been to lobby for slots, not more poker. I'm not hopeful.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I cant really imagine it mattering much. CP is always packed to the gills, and the games are so good, I think it could afford a little competition. It won't be good, of course, but it shouldn't hurt much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Canterbury is much less often packed these days, and on weeknights they rarely have all tables running anymore. Weekends are still busy, but not like 2 years ago when the lists could reach 50 names and take 2 hours. Last Saturday night at 11pm they had one or two open tables and the lists were either short or non-existent.

The change can't be good. Frankly, CP is already one of the best run rooms in the country and they have little room for improvement if they want to compete.

This having been said, I can think of three changes that would help:

1) Spread limit games.

2) Mixed games (okay, this probably wouldn't help much in competing, but I would like it, so I tossed it in).

3) Less stingy comps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Less stingy comps? They finally GOT comps!

[PorkchopDJG]

I welcome the competition and have enjoyed playing in the other rooms MN and Western Wisconsin have to offer. I also think as players mature and learn more about the game they want more of a challege than the no fold em variety of poker that Callerbury provides.

I know you want to play against loose players who call with hopeless hands but the last few times I have played 6/12 and 8/16 at Callerbury the cold calling and calling down with hopeless hands has reached new extremes. Even if you start with or flop a good hand you have to outlast all the chasers. So you basically wait to flop good hands/draws and hope they outlast the chasers. No bluffing, no raising to protect your hand(they call 2 and 3 bets cold), just hit a good hand and hope it survives at showdown.

You can have good nights playing this way but you can also have incredibly bad, frustrating nights when you miss big draws, get your big pairs cracked repeatedly and such.
I have found I like the moves and excitement of spread limit and no limit more because you can actually make moves, bluff and if people want to call with bad hands and draws they will risk a large portion of their stack to do so.

So I hope the new place has spread limit and I wish we could get real no limit in this state.

[Holm Fries]

[ QUOTE ]
I welcome the competition and have enjoyed playing in the other rooms MN and Western Wisconsin have to offer. I also think as players mature and learn more about the game they want more of a challege than the no fold em variety of poker that Callerbury provides.

I know you want to play against loose players who call with hopeless hands but the last few times I have played 6/12 and 8/16 at Callerbury the cold calling and calling down with hopeless hands has reached new extremes. Even if you start with or flop a good hand you have to outlast all the chasers. So you basically wait to flop good hands/draws and hope they outlast the chasers. No bluffing, no raising to protect your hand(they call 2 and 3 bets cold), just hit a good hand and hope it survives at showdown.

You can have good nights playing this way but you can also have incredibly bad, frustrating nights when you miss big draws, get your big pairs cracked repeatedly and such.
I have found I like the moves and excitement of spread limit and no limit more because you can actually make moves, bluff and if people want to call with bad hands and draws they will risk a large portion of their stack to do so.

So I hope the new place has spread limit and I wish we could get real no limit in this state.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played a bit of the 5-30 spread limit game at Hinckley a few weeks ago. Good game, but I don't think that it played much differently than a fixed limit structure. There was no 5-60 game going and the 5-30 was shorthanded the whole evening. I think that NL is going to be the only thing that would create a big splash compared to the current structure. Spread limit with a 30 or 60 cap is just too much like 15/30 or 30/60 FL.

[BigBuffet]

[ QUOTE ]
I can think of three changes that would help:

1) Spread limit games.

2) Mixed games (okay, this probably wouldn't help much in competing, but I would like it, so I tossed it in).

3) Less stingy comps.

[/ QUOTE ]

4) Get Krispy Kreme back. That crap from Donut Connection sucks [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

5) And what's up with that cabby cashier at the Finish line [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]