One round later...

[admiralfluff]

Same unknown loose man olimps UTG. I raise A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] MP. Donk SB and BBs call.

4 to the flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

loosey donks, I raise, fold, fold, call

turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

loosey check, I bet, he c/r, I fold.

[Guruman]

I imagine at the stakes you play this is a dangerous fold even vs someone who looks loose passive after a few hands. That J is perfect spot for something dumb like t9 to semibluff with vs what he can hope is a non-club hand.

Also, I tend to struggle with the theoretical side of raising this flop or waiting for a safe turn. In this case its a small pot, so it hurts less to get sucked out on and you're only worried about one draw anyway.

[johnnyrocket]

i hate this turn card but at ur level with the level of thinking i believe u must call down here, lots of players make this play as a semi bluff when they pick up the draw, I call down not happy about it.

[admiralfluff]

fwiw, this is 10/20 ftp.

[mjkidd]

Guru -- I don't think you can wait to raise in this spot -- I think you have to raise the flop. If you call, you'll be laying gutshots and middle or bottom pair 10-1 to call; if you raise, you'll be cutting thier odds to 5-1. The great thing about raising the flop in this spot is that a hand like 78 will have proper odds to call getting 5-1, but he's almost certainly going to fold rather than call 2 cold.

I think the turn is either a bet/fold or a check. Bet/call, and calling the river is by far the worst option.

[johnnyrocket]

yup, we need to push this flop harder or we are leaving ourselves clueless and scared when a scary card lands on the turn.