Should I make a bad post? Psychology forum maybe.

[ddubois]

I'm running really bad this weekend, and every hand where someone plays back at me (particularly on turn or river), I'm expecting to get shown better. I've got a bunch of hands where my gut is screaming "[censored], [censored] [censored]. He's got it, [censored].", but I call anyway with a hand that's strong in an absolute sense - sets, trips, top two, KK preflop, 2nd full houses (lol), etc - but my read says they can't have played the hand they way they did unless they had me beat.

But posting hands like this seems pretty useless. I mean, they are going to be totally biased because I know I lost, and you know I lost because I'm posting it. Also, I can't figure out what the goal of the post would be. In all honesty, I would have two goals, and they would be internally inconsistent:

1) On one hand, I do want to fold when I 'know' I'm beat; I want to make the tough laydowns that are +EV. I want to learn to trust my reads, because quite often my instincts really nail a persons hand spot on.

2) But I also want validation for my play. I want to hear people say that the tilt-induced crying calls my gut said were bad, were actually logically correct. I want to think I'm a decent player, and that I played OK, and my absolute hand strength warranted the action taken. Obviously it would be a huge mistake to go into aggressive 5/10 games playing weak-tight and looking for excuses to fold. You'll get run over. Another way of saying this, I can't let my gut get tuned too far in one direction.

It's clearly not possible to be praised for both the read that said fold, and the finger that clicked call.

So is there any point to posting what are going to look a lot like BBV hands?

[PerDoom]

LOL at validation. What if someone tells you you suck you feel bad?

[Teh1337zor]

i didnt read all of this bc im tired but ive recently pulled out of a downswing and all I can say is check yourself to make sure you are thinking logically and not thinking "fuckk im ru nning so bad he has to have it" go through the works of how you would normally process the hand. I mean I know that advice is obvious but keep reminding yourself and gl turning things around

[Albert Moulton]

You could post some of these tough decisions up to the point that you bet or called all-in and prior to saying what you did, ask for a range of hands they put villain on and then whether a bet or call is appropriate.

But if you get people to give a range of hands in tough call spots, you can pokerstove the consensus of opinion to see if your call was +EV given the forum's consensus on his hand range. Calling an all-in is really a pokerstove problem. The trick is getting his hand range. So, write your own range before you post, but don't post it. Get a consesnsus form the forum. Compare that range to yours. If their range was different than yours, then you can adjust your range in similar situations in the future.

But include reads, stats, notes, stack sizes, and other variables other than your gut. Leave your gut out of the post.

[e_hammer]

Coming from having done so myself, take a day off and clear your mind. Then come back and totally retract yourself from the wins/losses/results. Play as good as you know how, trust your instinct and pay absolutely zero attention to whether the hand was won or not, only checking to see if you played the hand in a +EV way.


You will find that this is a great way to overcome the peaks and troughs that the mind goes thru. You will have arrived totally once you get to a point that you truly have no emotion if a hand is won or lost, and only then can you truly and objectively look back and dissect the hand itself for future play.

[wpr103]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL at validation. What if someone tells you you suck you feel bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that natural human instinct? Are you a bot or something?

[wpr103]

Try not posting your own hands and just really analyzing other people's hands in the forum for awhile. You may be suprised at the suggestions that some good players have for certain hands.

All do all the usual suspects: play less tables, move down, review your sessions, etc.

[ddubois]

Ok, so this kind of post is what I was talking about. No one's going to believe me, but swear my spidey sense is right like 90% of the time. Granted, I don't know how many winners I mistakenly fold, but I do know how often I say "[censored], I'm beat" and crying call, and get shown what I put the guy on. Here's another example:

Dealt to FristSux [Ts Qs]
FristSux raises to $14
d4donkey folds
Kmicic calls $12
paopucks folds
*** FLOP *** [Tc 9d Jc]
Kmicic bets $22
FristSux calls $22
*** TURN *** [Tc 9d Jc] [Th]
Kmicic bets $57
FristSux calls $57
*** RIVER *** [Tc 9d Jc Th] [Ad]
Kmicic has 15 seconds left to act
Kmicic bets $123
I "know" my trips are no good. I think I'm supposed to crying call in case he has AJ, but I really think he's got KQ. And that's what he shows me.

My gut did get tricked the other day by a lag who played his AK very strangely/stupidly on a KcQc9d board, checking behind flop and raising my turn bet huge. I was convinced he had KK/QQ/JT. But that's like the only instance in a very long time. The last one was probably that awful BBV post where I folded the third nuts on the river getting like 4:1. I'd rather not link it. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Anyway... I imagine about once a month I "know" I'm beat, call, and find out I was actually wrong.

So why is my perception of reality so much different than everyone else's? All these players who make more money than me are excitedly snap-calling in places where I know I'm beat. I doesn't make sense to me. I should be thinking "I'm still good! I'm still good!" when I make what are demonstrated to be bad calls, and better players should be saying, "Whoa, slow down, hand read".

Maybe it's my style of play? Like, maybe I'm not inducing people to tilt and spew and bluff, like other 2+2ers are, so their perception of opponent's ranges is different than mine, because versus them, it is different?

[bet2win]

most times i no brainer check/call in those spots, i usually know im beat but a decent amount of time i turn over a winner

the problem with trying to make good folds all the time is you get paranoid and if you fold too much people will throw out bets

[Janis N.]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe it's my style of play? Like, maybe I'm not inducing people to tilt and spew and bluff, like other 2+2ers are, so their perception of opponent's ranges is different than mine, because versus them, it is different?

[/ QUOTE ]It could be. If you aren't aggro then you may be pegged as a tight player and peoples ranges (if they pay attention) will be tight against you.

Maybe move down, loosen up, start making more calls when you think you are beat and see what happens?